How Jackie Kravitz sold 100 homes in her fourth year by listing FSBOs and expireds

Jackie Kravitz00:00

I get excited, okay? I’m a little passionate about this topic. FSBOs have problems that cost them money. They just don’t know they have them. FSBOs is just about value, and a great real estate agent knows the value they bring to the transaction. It starts with the sales price of the property, but there’s so many other things that we do that could end up costing them money.

00:27So that’s like the secret formula for FSBOs, is just show your value. For anyone watching this, when you commit to becoming really a master of this conversation, you’re gonna list every FSBO in your marketplace because everybody else is just in the waiting game and the follow-up thing and previewing whatever.

00:50So you’re gonna be like a unicorn in your market and all the FSBOs will be yours. It’s very exciting.

Loida Velasquez01:08

Welcome to Vulcan7 Coaches and Mentors, a show where we interview top coaches and mentors all over the country who bring to us all of their tips and strategies so that you can succeed as a real estate agent. If you know of anyone that would be a perfect fit for this show, please reach out to us. That way we can connect with them.

01:28As always, we’re always looking to talk to coaches, mentors, trainers that believe that real estate is a contact sport. So with that being said, I wanna bring on today’s guest. You probably have seen her all over YouTube. Today we have Jackie Kravitz.

Jackie Kravitz01:44

Hey, Loida. Hi, everyone. Thanks for having me.

Loida Velasquez01:48

Yes, Jackie.

01:49So for anyone that’s watching that maybe is not too familiar with you, can you go ahead and give us a quick summary or let us know maybe how you started and what you do?

Jackie Kravitz01:59

Sure, yes. 27 years in real estate. I started with no sales experience of any kind. I don’t have a college degree. Got a real estate license, ’cause I was actually…

02:12I was selling my house as a FSBO, and after a couple of months the house wasn’t selling and I thought, “Oh, instead of listing with an agent, I’ll just go get a real estate license.” I wasn’t really planning on having a career. I literally just got a license to save the commission of the listing agent.

02:30And I started prospecting. I attended a… I don’t know if you’re familiar with it, Loida, probably. I’m sure you’ve heard of it. You’re young, so, Floyd Wickman Sweat Hogs, and they talk a lot about prospecting and FSBOs and expireds. So I just thought, “You know what? I think I could do this.” I wasn’t really afraid of talking to people, so I just started making calls.

02:55I was a stay-at-home mom, so nights and weekends I got on the phone and, yeah. That’s all I ever did. So my first and second year I was working part-time, nights and weekends. Sold 25 homes each of those years, and then I started working full-time my third year. By my fourth year I sold 100 homes, and they were all listings sold and they were all FSBOs and expireds.

03:20So it became my thing. I love these people. They wanna sell the house. I love talking to them. And I’ve been coaching agents for about 16 years. So that’s what I do.

Loida Velasquez03:32

That’s awesome. That is crazy, and it’s amazing too that you were able to figure out how to work with for sale by owners, because I think especially now a lot of agents are afraid of going after these type of leads because…

03:47Rejection, objections, and things like that. So for you, it’s funny that you were trying to sell the home for sale by owner, and then now you specialize pretty much working with these for sale by owners. So was there a shift in the mindset, or how did you transition so that they would now be able to see your value as an agent versus trying to sell their homes on their own?

Jackie Kravitz04:08

You know, I actually never thought about the transition aspect of it. When I look back, and I say, I don’t say it all the time, I was a FSBO and that’s why I got into real estate. Now looking back I’m like, “What was I thinking about?” The truth is FSBOs don’t know what they don’t know.

04:32FSBOs, I talk about this all the time on YouTube, in my training. FSBOs have problems that cost them money. They just don’t know they have them, and unfortunately, and I think this is what makes it difficult for agents to call FSBOs, the agents don’t even know what problems FSBOs have.

04:50So in all the years of coaching agents, so many of them say, “Well, but in this market…” It doesn’t matter what market it is. It’s always like, “Well, with the way the market is, I think that they’re priced right, and they could probably sell.” So the agents don’t even think that they can benefit them somehow, so of course they’re not gonna list with somebody that can’t do anything for them.

05:18I had no clue, honestly, and then as I started learning more and more, FSBOs is just about value, and a great real estate agent knows the value they bring to the transaction. It starts with the sales price of the property, but there’s so many other things that we do that could end up costing them money if they don’t have the knowledge and the experience and the expertise to handle.

05:46So that’s like the secret formula for FSBOs, is just show your value.

05:54And yeah, that’s about it.

Loida Velasquez05:57

Yeah. You know, it’s funny that you were mentioning earlier, it’s almost like some agents talk themselves out of going after for sale by owners, and I think that that is such a common theme where we think, “Oh, well, it’s a seller’s market.”

06:11“There’s low inventory. The for sale by owner’s gonna sell even if they’re priced high.” And at the end of the day, what would you tell maybe an agent that wants to focus on listings, and they should go after for sale by owners and expireds? What would be one thing that they need to work on to start making that shift in their mind to be like, “You know what?”

06:30“This FSBO needs me. Even if they’re priced right, they need me. I can do a much better job than they can.”

Jackie Kravitz06:37

I think it’s gaining the knowledge. ‘Cause just like the FSBO, they don’t know what they don’t… They don’t know. I mean, all they know is, I look at most real estate agents, it doesn’t sound like they do anything that complicated.

06:51I could put it in the MLS for 500 bucks. I could do open houses. So they don’t know that there’s anything else. And so I think for agents to start believing that they actually bring value, they need to gain the knowledge. It’s like, “Okay, what is it that I do?” I mean, I teach that extensively.

07:11There are videos on YouTube they could watch for free on my YouTube channel, that they could see that. In my training too. FSBOs, you know what I think also, so knowledge, right, Loida? That’s critical because that’s gonna give you the confidence to speak with them and present. But I also think that a lot of brokers and other coaches and trainers, they instill in agents the belief that FSBOs take a long time.

07:42You’re not gonna be able to call a FSBO when they just put the house on the market and you’re gonna go list them. It doesn’t work like that. You’re gonna have to follow up, and you gotta stay in touch, and you do this, and you go preview the house. I don’t believe in any of that.

07:58Obviously, when I started and I didn’t know what I was doing, that’s how I started. But then when I figured out, “Okay, this is what I do that can help them, and if they don’t hire me, they’re gonna end up leaving money on the table in so many different ways.” So rather than having the mindset that I have to follow up until this FSBO is ready, until they figure out that what they’re doing doesn’t work, I believe that we can make them ready by having the right conversation.

08:34So that is gonna require some learning, getting to understand what it is that you do for agents.

08:44Okay, let me just say this. I get excited, okay? I’m a little passionate about this topic.

08:47There’s so few agents that know what we’re talking about that for anyone watching this, when you commit to becoming really a master of this conversation, you’re gonna list every FSBO in your marketplace because everybody else is just in the waiting game, and the follow-up thing, and previewing, whatever.

09:13So you’re gonna be like a unicorn in your market and all the FSBOs will be yours. It’s very exciting.

Loida Velasquez09:22

Yeah. And I know for myself, even when I started and I got into the business, I went after for sale by owners and expireds because I wanted to get listings. I knew that listings would bring buyers.

09:34And the past couple years, especially when there was no inventory, buyers’ agents, and if you’re only working with buyers, you submit an offer. If there’s 20 other offers on the table, if yours doesn’t get picked, now you’re going back to showing homes. So I mean, there’s a lot of opportunity to focus on leads like this to be able to be a listing agent.

09:55So when it comes to for sale by owners, and especially when you started, what was your process like? Would you call them? Would you go in person, knock on their door?

Jackie Kravitz10:05

So when I started, things changed, right? Because when I started, I didn’t know anything, so I started calling. I had no fear of FSBOs.

10:13I had fear of expireds, the new ones, because they were kind of crazy. But FSBOs, no. They’re easy to talk to. It’s not easy to convince them to list with you, but they talk to you. So I just called. I never door knocked. I had little kids and I was a stay-at-home mom, so the phone was the quickest, most efficient way.

10:33So I just called. But then I wouldn’t ask, “Can I come see your house?” I would just say, this, we’re talking 27 years ago, right? Now everything is online and people have access to all of it. But back then, I would say, “I can do a market analysis.” You could still say that today. “I can do some detailed research on your property so we can look at what’s the highest price that we can sell it for in today’s market.”

10:59“Would you be agreeable to meeting with me?” So this is what I did back then, and they were like, “Sure, come over.” They would give me an appointment. I never really got into the “if I have a buyer, can I come look at…” I never did that, and I don’t recommend doing that because I didn’t have a buyer and I wasn’t interested in bringing a buyer.

11:20I wanted to talk to them about listing the property, even though I didn’t know what I was doing. But that was the truth of it. So that’s what I did. And I remember the first FSBO I listed. I actually remember the house. I remember the couple. So I went on this appointment. They didn’t list with me that day.

11:41I was there for, I don’t know, those long two-hour listing presentations. It was horrible. But okay. So I leave, and then I started calling them just to see, “Oh, how is it going? You were doing an open house. How did it go?” I’d follow up. And I was following up every week, maybe twice a week.

12:03So, “Oh, yeah, you said you had somebody interested. How did that work out?” Answer any questions. Just stay in touch, stay in touch. And I think it took maybe two and a half or three months. I called them one day, and they’re like, “You know what? This is not working. Come over. We’re gonna list with you.”

12:22And that was my very first FSBO listing. And I remember, I didn’t really ask them, but the seller said to me, after we signed it, he said, “Do you wanna know why we listed with you?” I said, “Please tell me,” ’cause I have no clue why anybody… I have no idea what I’m doing. And he’s like, “The first week when we put this house for sale by owner, we had so many agents calling.”

12:46“Two weeks later, there were maybe 5 of the 50 that called the first week still following up. A month later, there were two. Now, you’re the only one that’s been calling and calling, and so that’s why you got the listing.” So it was through follow-up. And my first year, second year, I was still doing that.

13:10I mean, I’d go out. Sometimes it would happen a little faster. Then I started listing some right away, first or second time, whatever, until I learned the formula to kinda make them ready so they realize that they need my help if they wanna sell it for the most money possible. And agents can still do that today.

13:31I mean, I teach my clients to just go in and make an amazing presentation where the FSBO sees the value, and they’re ready to list. So there’s two ways of doing it. I prefer faster rather than following up for months. The thing, too, is I feel like if you’re following up for months with this approach or whatever, and an agent that knows what they’re doing calls that FSBO and goes on the appointment, the listing is gone.

14:03You’re gonna follow up, and they’re gonna say, “I listed with somebody else,” which happened to me a lot, too. So that’s a painful lesson.

Loida Velasquez14:14

Yeah. I think it comes down to the communication, showing your value to the for sale by owner, the follow-up, and yeah, just like you mentioned, if there is another agent that’s more prepared than you are, if they meet with them, they might get the listing, and all of that time you spent following up, it’s gonna be for nothing.

Jackie Kravitz14:34

That happened to me a lot. So it was horrible. But you learn…

14:40And you do things differently.

Loida Velasquez14:42

Yeah. And I’m glad we’re talking about this because sometimes agents think that, “Oh, well, if I’m following up every month, maybe I’m bugging them.” But until you lose that listing to someone else, you could’ve been like, “Man, I should’ve followed up that one additional time.”

Jackie Kravitz14:58

I know. I know. I said to my clients like this, “How many listings have you lost because you followed up too many times?” No. Well, you didn’t follow up enough. That’s why you lose them. Not the other way around, so.

Loida Velasquez15:15

Yes, exactly. So now let’s kind of shift to expireds, because that’s also a lead source that you’ve gone after.

15:22So when you started to tap into the expireds, for you and your experience, what was the biggest difference that you saw in terms of maybe the quality of the lead or maybe more objection handlers that you had to know because of how they were reacting?

Jackie Kravitz15:38

I actually love them both equally.

15:43They’re my two babies, so I can’t pick a favorite. But expireds are easier to list than FSBOs. They’re harder to talk to, especially when they’re brand new. On the day they expire, that’s the biggest difference. It’s just being able to get past that initial, they’re frustrated.

16:05And South Florida, where I sold real estate, it’s super competitive. I say to my clients, “You don’t have any competition. It’s all in your head. It’s what you believe. That’s your biggest competition.” But the reality is that there are hundreds of agents calling an expired on the day they expired, so they’re not happy people.

16:26They’re already unhappy because the house didn’t sell. Now they’re getting bombarded with calls. Everybody’s saying the same thing. So you gotta deal with all that. If you can get past that initial, all these objections and how they feel on the call, skills will… I didn’t know when I started.

16:44I mean, I was just horrible with expireds. I actually was afraid of them, ’cause they were mean. I mean, I’m being Miss Nice.

16:53“I’m fine. This is Jackie.” Like, “Ah, why are you calling me? You’re the fifth…” I’m like, “What have I done?” Until you learn how to match them, how to get past that… They’re easier to list for sure.

17:07And to me, expireds, new. Old expireds could be okay too, but obviously there’s a lot more opportunity when they’re brand new. 40 to 50% relist within 72 hours, so hey, let’s go after that. They’re amazing. It’s just an amazing source. Once you get that appointment, at the appointment, it’s easier to list them than a for sale by owner, ’cause they’re already willing.

17:35You don’t have to show… Obviously you gotta show value. They’re not gonna list with you if they don’t see value. But it’s not like a FSBO. You gotta be able to show them that paying your commission is actually an investment. Expireds, none of that. It’s just what you do differently and making them feel confident that you can actually do the job.

Loida Velasquez17:57

Exactly.

17:59So for an agent that wants to start tackling these two lead sources, what would you recommend is a schedule that they need to follow from maybe the time they start making the calls, what would that look like? Is it expireds first, for sale by owners, or how would you divide that up?

Jackie Kravitz18:16

New expireds at 8:00 AM local time. And with Vulcan7, they have all the phone numbers right there. It even dials for you. I used to dial every number with my finger, look up phone numbers on my own. Agents have it so easy these days with Vulcan, such an incredible service.

18:408:00 AM local time, you’re calling new expireds. They’re only new the day they expire. If they expire today, tomorrow, they’re old. You have to have urgency.

18:51Because a lot of them, once they learn… Let’s start like my 3rd year, I started feeling, “Okay, I’m kinda a little better.” And then my 4th year, I started feeling more and more confident.

19:05By that point, 80% of the expireds I listed were same day. I called them in the morning, and I had the listing at the end of the day. So think about that. If you don’t call them early in the morning, what happens too is a lot of them, I have clients to this day that say this to me, “Well, I’m calling and they’re not answering the phone.”

19:30“Nobody answers the phone.” “Okay. What time are you calling?” “Oh, 9:30, 10:00.” Sure. They’ve gotten 50 calls. They stop answering the phone. Even if they wanna sell, they already set one, two, or three appointments. They’ve had so many agents calling. Of course, they’re not gonna answer the… They don’t recognize the number.

19:48They don’t answer the phone. So expireds first thing, and then the new FSBOs too. Then I would go to older expireds in chronological order backwards, FSBOs. Of course, they need to call their past clients and sphere of influence. I never did that, but that was a mistake. It’s almost like an adrenaline junkie.

20:17When you call an expired or a FSBO, and you can take that person and say, “No, I’m not in.” And then a few minutes later, they give you an appointment, you go take a listing. I mean, I thrived on that. So to me, I understand past clients, sphere, it’s like your future business and all that. But I wanted a listing today, and I knew that if I talked to those people, I could get a listing today.

20:41But then you end up with… It was fun. I mean, I don’t regret it. I made it my thing, and it worked out. But agents should obviously call their past clients, sphere of influence, and then go to circle prospecting, just listed, just solds. I just actually interviewed one of my clients for YouTube earlier today, and he’s a 22-year-old guy, two and a half years in real estate, and he’s not afraid of making calls.

21:11He joined my training two months ago and he’s listed six. He said this morning he listed another one, seven, expireds, FSBOs. He had never done that before. And he’s not afraid of the phone. He says, “I make 40 contacts a day.” Every day. He’s on the phone. Between 8:00 AM and 11:00 AM he talks to 40 people.

21:31He said that’s minimum. So the results will show up if you’re talking to enough people.

21:39You’re gonna get business for sure. And as you get better and better, the number of people you have to talk to to actually take a listing goes down. My first year, I was horrible.

21:50I mean, I thought it was amazing, but my ratios were not that great. And then as you continue to improve your skills, your mindset, things start getting… It becomes easier. They don’t get easier. You just get better and it’s easier for you, so.

Loida Velasquez22:08

Exactly. Yeah, and I think it’s really important for any agent watching this to know that you have to have patience, and as long as you’re putting in the work, you’re bettering your skills, you’re going to start getting the results and you’re gonna get better at converting these for sale by owners, expireds, and setting appointments.

22:27So, I know you brought up your coaching.

22:28Can you tell us a little bit more about that as well?

Jackie Kravitz22:32

Yeah. SalesXtraining, salesxtraining.com. Or jackiekravets.com will redirect you there. I guess I have a little bit of a reputation for FSBOs and expireds, so a lot of people think, “Oh, it’s just FSBOs and expireds.”

22:50“I don’t wanna call. Why?” Okay. So first of all, my training is not only on FSBOs and expireds. It’s only on listings, being a great listing agent. If you wanna be great at working with buyers, go somewhere else, ’cause that’s not what I do. But it’s the entire listing aspect, everything that a great listing agent needs to learn, how they need to think, the tools, the strategies, the scripts, pricing property, the listing presentation, all of it.

23:21The advantage of FSBOs and expireds, too, when you become great working with them, everything else is easier in comparison. But it’s not just FSBOs and expireds. It’s everything related to being a great listing agent. And it’s very affordable, too, so they can check it out.

Loida Velasquez23:43

Awesome. So salesx.com or jackiekravets.com?

Jackie Kravitz23:48

It’s salesxtraining.com, or jackiekravets.com will redirect you to SalesX Training as well. And on my YouTube channel, which is just Jackie Kravitz, there are a ton of videos and stuff. It’s not the same. YouTube is different. My training’s very systematic.

24:06There’s just an order to things and there’s a whole system around what agents need to do and what they need to learn. I do live calls, too, every week. I do a ton of role play, so it’s super fun. And agents, if you do what you’re supposed to do, you’re going to get results.

Loida Velasquez24:25

Awesome. So there you go. You guys can go and check that out. All of the links will also be in the description box below. And yeah, thank you so much, Jackie, for jumping on this chat. For sale by owners, expireds, I think more agents need to go after these lead sources instead of…

24:41Just focusing on dancing on social media. If you want to be a listing agent, these are the low-hanging fruit…

24:48That you gotta be consistent with.

Jackie Kravitz24:51

Absolutely. Let’s call the people that we know wanna sell, right? It just makes sense. So sounds good. But thank you so much. It was a pleasure.

Loida Velasquez25:01

I appreciate you. Yes. All right. Thanks, Jackie.

Jackie Kravitz25:03

All right. Thank you.