How James Michener’s team sold 363 listings in a year on a follow-up-first process

James Michener00:17

A lot of agents that call cancel expireds or for sale by owners, they’ll do the initial call, but then they don’t know when to follow up. They don’t know how to follow up. And that’s not their main process. Everybody that I’ve coached in my group coaching, they start doing the follow-up system that I have in place.

00:34They’re like, “Dude, this is amazing,” ’cause they’re following up with them timely. They’re following up with their cancel expireds, and it’s just been really beneficial to my team and to the coaching students that I work with.

Loida Velasquez00:45

More listing appointments. Perhaps you think that you’re setting appointments, but they’re not really going anywhere. You’re meeting with the clients, they’re not signing, or maybe they’re just ghosting you. Well, on today’s episode of Vulcan 7 Coaches and Mentors, we’re bringing back someone that’s an expert when it comes to processes so that you can be more effective with setting these listing appointments.

01:06So with that being said, I’m gonna bring on today’s guest, James Michener. So welcome, James.

James Michener01:12

Good morning, Loida. How are you doing today?

Loida Velasquez01:14

Doing great, and I’m really excited about this topic, setting listing appointments, because I think especially now with how things are going in real estate, we’re seeing a lot more agents wanna go after listings, so obviously setting listing appointments is key.

01:29So I know that before we pressed record, we were kind of talking about, sometimes agents don’t have the right process, so maybe we can start with that. What does that look like?

James Michener01:40

Yeah, and that’s a great question, and this is a good topic. On Tuesday I set two appointments, Wednesday I set four, and then today I set two as well.

01:48And so the process goes like this, right? I’m all about follow-up calls, and I think that’s the majority of my set appointments is through the follow-up calls. So 90% of them are gonna be that, and 10% might be the initial call, right? For me, I use the canceled expireds, for sale by owners, for rent by owners, and so I hit those as much as I can.

02:09And what I’m trying to do is just build up my follow-up calendar in Vulcan 7. But I get those into my calendar, and I was actually doing a training with my ISA, ’cause we just weren’t setting as many appointments. I’m like, “Just watch me do this,” right? So I did the cancel expireds with her first and then some for rent by owners.

02:27And I said, “Hey, we didn’t get any appointments, but we got to build out our calendar for follow-ups.” And then I said, “Watch this. Now we’ll set appointments,” right? So we called 30 contacts that were in our calendar for follow-up, and I set four appointments that day. And she’s like, “Dude, that’s amazing.”

02:45I’m like, “Well, yeah.” I said, “Do you hear my tonality? It’s easygoing, but confident and asking tons of questions.” One lady said, “No, no, we’re not ready. We’re kind of maybe holding off.” And then I started asking more questions, and eventually it led to, “Well, we are considering it, but maybe not for a little while.”

03:06And I said, “Well, when would be a good time to come over?” She said, “I guess we have availability on Friday, actually, and we might want to be moving a little sooner.” So I set that appointment. But it comes through setting your process up for canceled expireds, for sale by owners, for rent by owners, and then your website leads, and transferring those over into your follow-up calendar.

03:29There’s days where if I don’t have enough time to do all my canceled expireds, I just hit my follow-up calls, and that was like today basically. I just didn’t have time to do that because I was running a little bit behind, so I just set up my calendar, opened it, and started calling through it, and set two appointments from just doing that process over and over and over again.

03:53So persistence pays off.

Loida Velasquez03:55

Yes, and that’s awesome. And I’m glad that we’re talking about follow-up, because I feel that sometimes agents, they’re just wanting to get that person that’s going to say, “Yes, come to my house tomorrow at 5:00,” and then they forget to just follow up because they’re not focused on that.

James Michener04:10

Oh, absolutely. Tuesday I did that. So I have a guy that wanted to interview me, and he had a friend, which I didn’t realize was a real estate agent. And 141 days ago, he ended up listing with that friend. It expired, but I had followed up with him every once in a while. He had emailed me like, “Hey, I chose to go with such and such, and thank you for your time.

04:32I’m sorry about all this.” And I just said right back to him, “Hey, no worries. I totally get it. I would go with my friend too if I felt comfortable, but if anything changes, let me know,” right? Well, I didn’t burn that bridge, right? But I kept following up just every once in a while ’cause his girlfriend is a really good friend of mine and my wife’s hairdresser, right?

04:50So I’d just say, “Hey, Bruce, how you doing? Good.” Touching base with him. And then he ended up calling me after that listing expired. I ended up getting an appointment with him, and I ended up listing it, and they had it at 608 for the price. I brought it down to 550, which he felt more comfortable with, and he liked all the advice.

05:09And then I helped him get contractors in there. So when I’m setting those appointments, I’m trying to see what exactly they need help with and offering a vendors list, right? ‘Cause the more help you can give them and the more you can empathize, that’s gonna build your trust with everybody. So the second one, it was an agent who actually built spec homes, and he had reached out to me a while ago, and he’s like, “Hey, I might wanna list this $1.1 million house with you, but I’m not quite ready, but maybe follow up with me, like, in two or three weeks.”

05:40I followed up with him in one week, and then followed up with him the next week. And then he wanted to get a stager. So I called him and I sent a group text message with my stager and him. They signed the proposal. I called him right after I saw the group chat where she said, “Thank you for signing the proposal.”

05:58Called him, and he ended up listing it with me that day for 1.60 million, which was awesome. So a million 60,000, sorry.

06:07But that was all through follow-up, right? I wasn’t gonna wait for him to call me back. I was gonna continue to follow up and see what I could do to help him to get him ready for that process.

Loida Velasquez06:18

And it’s great also how you are involving others that might possibly be able to help them-

06:24in their home. So contractors, whoever it is. And I love that you do a group text because now you can see what’s going on and if they actually end up connecting to the other person.

06:35And in this example that you just gave, I mean, I would’ve been excited too when I’m like, “Okay, she just said that he signed that contract. That means he’s serious. Let me reach out and see what I can do.”

James Michener06:46

Absolutely. One other thing I would say is if you’re calling cancel expireds, for sale by owners, and for rent by owners, is make sure if you don’t have that much time, but you have enough time to do your follow-up and maybe some other calls, just hit the brand-new ones that come in.

07:02Because those guys are gonna be more likely to list sooner than your older ones that you haven’t been picking up or whatnot. So you hit your newer ones and you try to build rapport, put those into your follow-up system or set the appointment right then. But I always wanted to try to be like the first or second agent that ended up calling those leads, ’cause after a third or fourth it’s like, “Oh man, another real estate agent,” right?

07:24And so you build that rapport, that trust, then you put them into your follow-up calendar, and then you follow up with them persistently with that. And then I wanna show you one other thing real quick here, ’cause this is what I send to them after I’m done talking to them, for active clients. It’s a text, I can’t find it right now.

07:57Let me see. Anyways, it’s a text that I send that has my Google reviews on it, and then a YouTube video that we’ve done as well. So as soon as I get a really good call and it’s set up for follow-up, I send them the Google reviews and then my YouTube video, and I would say 10% of the time they’re like, “Hey, I watched all that.

08:18I looked at your reviews. You actually worked for one of my friends.” I called them, and they’re ready to go at that point. So giving them as much information as I can in the beginning and then slowly following up with them, which is a basic call. If you want me to do that with you, I can too, ’cause a lot of people have questions on that.

Loida Velasquez08:37

Okay. Yeah, we can run that through if you want.

James Michener08:40

Okay. So this is gonna be a follow-up call, so ring, ring.

Loida Velasquez08:44

Hello?

James Michener08:44

Hi. Good morning, Loida. It’s James Michener. How are ya?

Loida Velasquez08:48

Oh, hey, James. I’m doing great. How are you?

James Michener08:50

I’m good, thank you. Hey, I was just following up about the house on 123 Main Street. Any progress with that?

08:56Are you looking at listing it anytime soon?

Loida Velasquez08:59

We’re still talking about it with my husband, but at this point, we do wanna purchase, but the interest rates are high, so we’re really not sure on a timeframe.

James Michener09:08

Okay. Absolutely. Have you guys talked to a lender by chance?

Loida Velasquez09:11

No, not really.

James Michener09:13

Okay. One of the things I could do is connect you with a lender that my team uses a lot and I use personally as well for when I buy properties.

09:20Would that be something that would help you?

Loida Velasquez09:23

Well, I don’t wanna feel like I’m committing to something right now, because what if the numbers don’t work out? I don’t wanna feel like I have to now sell my house.

James Michener09:32

Oh, no. And I completely get that. A lot of times the pre-qualification is good ’cause they’ll tell you what the rates are, and then what the payment would be for the house you want, and then if there’s any credit repair you want.

09:42So really, it’s just like doing a quick conversation with them to kind of see where you’re at. That way you know if you can actually sell the house and move to a house that you want to in the price range that you have. And it’s free. They’re not gonna run your credit really. They’re just gonna look and ask questions and try to get things going for you on that.

10:01Okay. Would that be something that’d be helpful?

Loida Velasquez10:03

Yeah. I mean, if you’re saying that they’re not really gonna do like a hard pull on my credit, I don’t see why not.

James Michener10:09

Yeah. So what I can do is I’ll start a group chat with you and Steven, and get that over to him, and then get an appointment set for you guys to talk to him on the phone.

10:19Again, it should take like 10, 15 minutes, and if you don’t want the credit ran, you don’t have to do that. But he’ll just ask a bunch of questions to see exactly where you’re at in your process. When it comes to the house, is there any work that needs to be done or any kind of pre-listing stuff that you’ve been wanting to do that might be holding you back?

Loida Velasquez10:36

No, not really. About six months ago we remodeled the kitchen and the bathrooms, and we just put in some brand new landscaping, so the home is pretty much turnkey ready to go.

James Michener10:46

Oh, nice. Okay. Well, if there’s anything you need, handyman work or whatnot, just let me know. I’ll connect you with Steven as well, and then I’ll check back in like 10 or 14 days.

10:55Does that work?

Loida Velasquez10:56

Okay. Yeah, that’s fine.

James Michener10:58

Perfect. All right, Loida. Have a great day. Thank you.

Loida Velasquez11:00

Okay, thanks.

James Michener11:01

So it’s something super easy with that. And if they don’t want the credit pulled, I just send a text to Steven like, “Hey, I’m gonna send you a client. They don’t want the credit pulled, but they do want some information on it, and they wanna look to see if there’s anything holding them back or what the price point would be and the interest rate at this time so they can get ready to sell their property and buy one as well.”

11:23And he’s totally cool. It’s just starting the introduction, right? And letting them know that I have vendors that can help them, and just trying to be as helpful as I can throughout the whole process. That way I build the trust and I’m the one that they wanna work with. ‘Cause what you’ll find is a lot of agents that call cancel expireds or for sale by owners, they don’t do the follow-up, right?

11:43They’ll do the initial call, but then they don’t know when to follow up, they don’t know how to follow up, and that’s not, like, their main process. Everybody that I’ve coached in my group coaching, they start doing the follow-up system that I have in place. They’re like, “Dude, this is amazing.”

11:58‘Cause they’re following up with them timely, they’re following up with their cancel expireds, and it’s just been really beneficial to my team and to the coaching students that I work with.

Loida Velasquez12:06

That’s awesome. Yeah. So for the expireds and the cancels, let’s say you call them, but you don’t set an appointment on that first call, typically what are they telling you in terms of timeframe?

12:16Or maybe are they just like, “No, no, no, we don’t wanna meet with anybody”? What are they telling you, and how do you know, “Okay, I’m gonna follow up with them, like, on this day”?

James Michener12:24

That’s a great question. So a lot of people will have what’s called listing fatigue, right? Where they’ve listed the property, they’re showing it, they’re just kind of tired of doing all that.

12:33So I usually give them a couple days in between, maybe like three to five, and call them back. Because the truth of it is, we all have bad days, right? So maybe they’re just going through a bad day, they’re getting all these calls, and I know that in a week or so a lot of those calls are gonna drop off.

12:50It’s like people that go to the gym the first of the year, right? I don’t go for the first three weeks of the year or four weeks ’cause it’s too packed, but I know in February 90% of them are not gonna be going, right? So that’s the same way when it comes to prospecting as well.

13:06So if somebody tells me that they have listing fatigue or they’re just gonna hold back, again, I’ll call them in five to seven days. But what I try to do is get their information so I can email them what’s called Home Bot, so that they’re getting a monthly email on what the home value is. If somebody’s like, “You know, we’re gonna wait three months or so,” I call them again in a week, see where they’re at, and just kind of feel that out, and it might be every seven to 10 days.

13:34Because they told me that they wanna hold off, which means they want to list the property, right? They’re getting bombarded with calls, so I just gotta give it a little bit of time for them to calm down, ripen, fruit on a tree, right? Ripen, and then I can pick them easier that way.

Loida Velasquez13:49

So let’s say, I assume as you’re talking to them, you try to dig for motivation to see if they’re actually a serious seller-

13:56or if they… ‘Cause sometimes they’ll be like, “Yeah, call me like in two months.” Especially if it’s maybe a for sale by owner. But you could do it sooner.

James Michener14:07

Yeah. My first call, my first conversation with them is, “What’s holding you from working with a real estate agent? Is it because of the commissions?”

14:16And generally it’s yes, right? So if it’s yes, I go, “What’s the number that you’re looking to net after, if you pay a buyer’s agent and the closing costs? Is there a check that you wanna walk away with at the closing?” And they’re like, “Yeah, $100,000 is what I wanna get.” And so I run the numbers in my head and on my phone while I’m doing it.

14:36So I’ll subtract the commission, minus the closing cost and the list price, and see exactly what we’d get for a net. And if it’s like 125, which I just got a listing last week by doing this, I’ll say, “Hey, if I can net you that or more, would you be willing to work with me? I’ll take on all the marketing.

14:56I’ll work for you completely for free until we get an offer. And if you don’t like that offer, you can say no. Would that be something, that I’d work for you if I can get you that net number or more for you?” And a lot of times they’re like, “Well, yeah. Yeah. Let me think about it,” right? Then I follow up in like two, three days at that point.

15:13Or I say, “Okay, great. I know you wanna wait a week or two, or you wanna talk to your wife. Is there a time I could come over today or tomorrow and just look at the house and drop off my information? That way you guys have more information to be able to make a decision.” And I always try to get the preview appointment with them.

15:31‘Cause I know if I get face-to-face, it’s much harder for them to say no. I think that they’ll like me. I can control the conversation a little bit more, build rapport based on what’s in the house, their likes and dislikes, and really get to know them.

Loida Velasquez15:45

So I wanna ask you two questions.

James Michener15:46

Okay.

Loida Velasquez15:47

So let’s say you have set the appointment.

15:49“Yeah, James, come over Thursday at 5:00. My husband’s gonna be here. We’re all blah, blah, blah.”

15:53Leading up to that appointment, do you send anything for them to review?

James Michener15:58

I usually will send them my Here to Help email, which has my marketing plan, marketing stats, my Zillow profile, my realtor.com profile, my Google reviews, and then my YouTube video so that they can see that.

16:13I’m not sending them a CMA unless they’re really pushing it, because I don’t wanna lose that appointment based on a CMA that I sent them, but their house is in better shape, or they didn’t mention that they had an add-on. So I don’t wanna lose the appointment, so I won’t send them that CMA.

16:30What was the-

Loida Velasquez16:31

So how about for the day of? On the day of the appointment, what do you usually take?

James Michener16:37

Yeah, great question. So I bring all the listing docs. I bring my marketing plan, the county website printout, their old listing printout, even if they bought it like six years ago, right? I wanna bring that so I can compare what they’ve done now to how they bought it.

16:56And then I bring the CMA, and those listing docs again. And it’s so funny because so often I’ll do my closing, right? And they’re like, “Oh, well, yeah, we would like to go. When do you wanna set up another meeting?” I’m like, “Oh, I actually have the docs right now if you wanna go.” And they laugh like, “Oh my gosh, you did come prepared, huh?

17:16You were ready to get this signed.” And it’s like, “Well, I don’t wanna waste any time, and if you’re ready to go, I wanted to start working for you right away.” So that’s what I’ll bring. And I always put it in a nice folder, too.

17:28And come with the padfolio also that I carry around.

Loida Velasquez17:33

Do you have like a certain amount of days?

17:35I don’t know, maybe you’ve talked to them on a Wednesday. Will you set the appointment for like a day or two days later? Or depending on maybe how hot they are, you’re just like-

James Michener17:45

I’ll get in the same day if I can. Because I’ll just email my assistant or one of my team members and say, “Hey, get the CMA ready.

17:52Get the listing docs ready. We’re gonna go see this house in two hours,” right? Even in an hour, if it’s close enough to me. And then they’ll come, they’ll bring the stuff to me. I go to the appointment, nail it down, get it scanned in, take my copy, send them their copy, and I’m good to go at that point. But I try to get in the door as fast as I can.

Loida Velasquez18:11

Okay, got it. Yeah. So let’s say you’re at the appointment, you went over everything. I know probably a lot of agents get the, “Oh, well, you know what? We wanna think about it. We wanna take some time to look at everything that you brought over.”

James Michener18:22

Yeah, absolutely. And when we get that response, a lot of times it’s because maybe I wasn’t clear enough in some of our marketing or the pricing.

18:31Was all the marketing good, and did you like the pricing?

Loida Velasquez18:35

Yeah, but we’re actually talking with other agents, so we just kinda wanna compare and see what everyone’s doing.

James Michener18:41

Oh, and I completely understand. If I was able to get you that price, though, and work with you on commissions or get it sold in this timeframe, would you be willing to hire me?

18:50And then what I can do for you is I’ll call those other agents that you have set up, and I’ll say, “Hey, you guys can bring the first buyer. We got the property listed. We’ll be on in two days.” Would that be something that would work for you? And I’ll handle those calls so you don’t have to cancel them yourself, ’cause I know that can be super awkward, but I’ll take that off your plate.

Loida Velasquez19:10

Well, we just wanna make sure that we’re making the right decision. That’s why, I mean, we wanna at least take the next 24 hours to think about it, and we can get back to you tomorrow.

James Michener19:21

Yeah. That works. I’ll give you a call first thing in the morning then. So I’ll end it at that and make sure that I answer any other clarifying questions.

19:29What I’ve noticed is if I push too hard… I want them to make a decision based on their comfort level, right? ‘Cause I have another guy in my market that’s really good, but he’s super pushy, and they’ll cancel, like, a couple days after ’cause they’re like, “Dude, I really wasn’t ready.

19:44I felt like I got pushed into this.” And I just don’t want that going around my town, too, that I’m pushy or-

19:51or bearing with stuff. ‘Cause you’ll lose a lot of listings that way, and I try to get a lot of referrals also. So I sell the way I’d wanna be sold, and when somebody’s-

20:00super pushy with me, I just don’t like that.

Loida Velasquez20:03

Okay. Yeah. Awesome. No, I’m glad that you covered that because I know a lot of agents are like, “Well, what do I do?” Or, “How do I say things?” And I think it also-

20:12it also depends with the personality type that you’re dealing with or maybe the client, right?

20:16Maybe if it’s an older couple, I get that all the time, where it’s like, “You know what? We don’t wanna feel pressured or rushed.”

20:23And you don’t wanna have them feel that way.

James Michener20:25

Or they wanna pray about it, right? Which is a totally valid concern. I want them to be comfortable with it. Now, the thing is, if they say, “I’ll give you a call tomorrow,” the listing appointments I had the day prior are my very first calls that I’ll make, to make sure to get them to answer, and I can talk to them first before any other agent is following up with them again.

20:44And I have won maybe 25 listings by doing that. They’re like, “Oh, man, it was a toss of a coin between you and Paul.” And we said the first person to call will get the listing, right? So I end up calling 7:30, 8:00 in the morning and getting that listing.

Loida Velasquez20:59

Oh, that’s a good tip. For those of you that are listening, that’s a good tip.

21:03Be the first one to call back.

James Michener21:06

Yep. Absolutely.

Loida Velasquez21:06

And be like, “This guy’s really on it.”

James Michener21:09

Yeah. I love listings. I sold 183 my best year by myself, and then 363 with my team, so it was pretty good, in 2021.

Loida Velasquez21:17

That’s awesome.

James Michener21:18

Yeah.

Loida Velasquez21:18

So as we’re wrapping this up, what would you say are three things that agents need to be doing right now if they wanna set more listing appointments?

James Michener21:26

You need to get the best data that you can. And I’ve used all kinds of data, and then I end up just sticking with Vulcan 7 ’cause it’s the best data that you can get out there. Is it a little bit more expensive? Sure. But you’ll cover that in one closing if you get that, and then you’re also not deflating your momentum, deflating your motivation.

21:44‘Cause there’s so many times where I was using other systems and there would be wrong numbers. I’m like, “Damn, this sucks, man. What the heck?” Then you switch over to a new data platform, which for me was Vulcan7, and I end up knocking it out of the park, getting a hold of other people that other agents aren’t because they don’t have the same data.

22:02The other thing is, I like doing a double or triple line dialer myself, so my data will come in from Vulcan and then get switched over to Mojo. So making sure that you have a good system that you’re comfortable with. And then the third thing is… I’m gonna do four. Is that okay?

Loida Velasquez22:20

Yeah.

James Michener22:20

Okay. The more the better. So the third thing is just making sure that you’re practicing, right? And that’s not role-play. The best practice that you can have is in-game experience, right? So making sure that you’re actually making those calls, ’cause that’s how you’re gonna get better. Going on those preview appointments or any listing appointment you can, especially when you’re new or you’re slow, ’cause then you’re gonna learn the repetition and the objections and how to converse with people, right?

22:46And it’s hard, ’cause you’re asking for a big paycheck, so you wanna make sure that you’re coming the best you can. Dress really well when you go to the appointments. First impression is huge. And then, lastly, empathizing, not being pushy, and not being too scripted. People want to work with human beings, not a robot, and they wanna know that you care, and if you’re too scripted, they’re like, “Oh God, here we go.

23:13Another guy that’s just trying to sell me on something,” right?

23:18Those would be the most important things, you know? And then-

23:21the last one is, like, get around other people that are doing stuff like this. ‘Cause the better group… Like my group coaching that I have, I learn a ton from these guys, and we’re constantly helping each other.

23:31We have accountability partners in there, so it helps us keep accountable, but we also get new ideas and keep ourselves motivated and excited to do it ’cause we’re part of a group that’s doing it as well.

Loida Velasquez23:43

Yeah. And for anyone that wants to know more about your coaching, go ahead and share maybe your links where people can find you.

James Michener23:50

Okay. Yeah. If you look me up on Facebook, it’s James Michener on Facebook, and then on Instagram it’s JRMichener. Feel free to email me at Michener, M-I-C-H-E-N-E-R, coaching@gmail.com, so michenercoaching@gmail.com. Or give me a call. Probably send me a text would be better, ’cause it gets pretty busy. It would be 928-308-4700.

24:15And if you’re interested, we’ll send you a copy of our last training session, so that you can take a look at it and see if it’s a good fit for you.

Loida Velasquez24:27

Awesome. Thank you so much, James. As always, I enjoy our conversations. And everything that you mentioned, I know agents are gonna be able to implement and hopefully set more listing appointments.

24:36Maybe they can DM you, DM me, and let us know, “Hey, I implemented what James said and I’m kicking butt now.”

James Michener24:43

Yep. Persistence and follow-up.

24:45All right. Awesome. Thank you, Loida.

Loida Velasquez24:47

Yes, absolutely. Thank you, everyone. We’ll see you on the next one.