How Tim Hawley went from zero closings to 36 sides in 12 months by prospecting

Tim Hawley00:00

Expires and FSBOs are a great way to expand your sphere of influence. Vulcan’s got fantastic data. Now, expires and FSBOs, they can be difficult. They expired for a reason, okay? And for sale by owners are generally really smart people. They don’t take this job on because they’re afraid that they can’t handle the job, right?

00:23So you really need to show your value to both of these groups. Expires and FSBOs. You need to know your value, you need to show it to them, and you need to be enthusiastic about it.

Aaron Wittenstein00:52

It’s me, it’s Aaron Wittenstein. Hope all is well. We’re here with Vulcan7 Roadmap, where here we teach you how to take one, two, three, four additional listings a week. And actually, I’m kind of happy when I saw this name come across my desk. It’s an old friend, all right? He’s been on the pregame show all the time with me, and actually, yeah, he’s a good buddy.

01:12We talk, you know, you’re a good buddy of mine. You’re a good buddy of mine. Tim Hawley from the Ozarks in Missouri. My friend, talk to me. How you doing today? What’s the good word?

Tim Hawley01:22

I’m doing really, really great today. Thanks, Aaron. It’s beautiful weather outside.

01:26Market’s active and we’re doing well. How are you doing?

Aaron Wittenstein01:31

I’m doing very well. I’m doing very well. So we were chatting a little bit beforehand. And Tim, how long have you been doing prospecting, lead generation, expireds, for sale by owners, circle? How long have you been doing this for?

Tim Hawley01:44

Since 2016. Yeah, I got my license in 2016, and I immediately started prospecting. Got in touch with Vulcan that year. I’ve been a subscriber the whole time ever since. And yeah, so seven years. Seven solid years.

02:00Yeah. It works.

Aaron Wittenstein02:02

Hey, you gotta roll with what works, right?

02:04So kind of talk to me because, doing anything for seven years at a high level, right? It kind of has its pluses and its minuses, all right? So can you just walk me through the progression of where you started, where you kind of went to, where you peaked at, and kind of up and down a little bit?

Tim Hawley02:22

I would love to. Do you mind if I let my dog out?

Aaron Wittenstein02:25

Yeah, that’s perfectly fine. Go right ahead. Tim, no.

Tim Hawley02:28

I’m gonna let the dog out so we can actually have a conversation. So when I actually went to real estate school, somebody mentioned expireds in real estate school, and I hadn’t thought of that concept at all, and I was like, “Wait a minute.

02:43So there’s houses that don’t sell?” And this was in 2016, so it was before the huge market rush. And my teacher said, “Yeah. Actually, there’s a very high percentage of houses that don’t sell, and if you’ve got the time to go contact those people, it’s a fantastic lead source.” And when I started real estate, I was switching out of a completely different career, working in advertising.

03:07Didn’t know really much about salesmanship or real estate, and the real reason I wanted to get in was for my own personal benefit, to invest in real estate. So I wanted to get educated on it. And my biggest worry was I had moved to a city where I didn’t know anybody, and how would I get clients? And so when I found out about expireds, I was like, “So these are people who wanna sell their houses.

03:31They wanna hire a real estate agent and for some reason, the house didn’t sell. I’m from advertising. I can sell a house. I just need to get in a conversation with them.” And so then the next question is, well, how do you find their names and phone numbers?

03:49Right? So Aaron, what’s the best system out there for names and phone numbers for expireds?

Aaron Wittenstein03:57

I’m gonna roll with Vulcan7 on that one.

Tim Hawley04:00

I’m gonna roll with Vulcan7 on that one, after being with them for so many years. I tried the others, because I really do believe in getting three bids for a job. So I tried two other lead sources, and Vulcan was definitely better

04:15as far as getting me connected to them.

04:17Getting me the information I needed to be able to talk to them. And after that it’s really working on scripting. What’s your message? What are you trying to do for them? What are you trying to do for yourself? And particularly with FSBOs, how do you continue the conversation for a while, because you need to build that relationship, I think more with FSBOs than expireds, before you get hired.

04:44But yeah, and so I also immediately recognized listings being a great way to generate buyer leads. So focused in with Vulcan and started making phone calls.

Aaron Wittenstein04:56

So, all right, so you started seven years ago, 2016. All right? How long did it take until you actually saw tangible results?

Tim Hawley05:07

So ’16 was almost a non-year for me as far as making money went.

05:13I think tangible results kind of means a closing with money in it. So let’s go with that. 2017, I closed 36 sides, with about 20 of those being listings and probably seven of those being… Well, not probably, I know my numbers. So seven of those being expireds and FSBOs.

05:34So… Go ahead.

Aaron Wittenstein05:35

No, I was gonna say, so you went from zero to 36 transactions within a span of roughly a year.

05:43Did I catch that correct?

Tim Hawley05:44

Yeah. I went from zero to zero in nine months.

05:48And then I went from zero to 36 in 12 months. I did 36 that next 12 months. Yeah.

Aaron Wittenstein05:53

So let me just get this straight, ’cause I want everybody to hear what we’re saying right now. You put in the work, it takes time. It’s that simple.

05:59It takes nine to 12 months to get yourself rocking and rolling anywhere.

Tim Hawley06:03

Could be.

06:04But it doesn’t take everybody…

Aaron Wittenstein06:05

It can. It can, though.

Tim Hawley06:07

But it did take me nine months to get educated, get comfortable, get connected, learn my scripts, know my market. And again, remember, I’m in a different market and a different career, so I think that if you’ve got…

06:24I’ve seen family members take off in 90 days. I think if you’re connected into it and you understand real estate, you can go a lot faster than I did. I’ve also seen people at nine months say, “Forget this. I need a paycheck. I’m out.” So yeah, it takes some time to shift gears and to build a business.

Aaron Wittenstein06:42

How did you get through those nine months?

Tim Hawley06:45

Well, I had been successful in my previous career. I am a risk-taker, so it’s not like I was like, “Oh my gosh, I’ve gotta keep a job before I have another job.” So how I got through those nine months was just being really focused on what I wanted to do and what my goal was.

07:05I figured I could take two years off if I had to. Of course, that would crush me. It would crush my finances to do that. But we lived on the thin. I got three kids, right?

07:19So I sat the kids down with my wife and explained to them the difference between want and need, and my kids still talk about that conversation.

07:30Hey, it was a difficult conversation. In ’16, so seven years ago, my kids were 12, nine, and six. So I sat my little kids down and explained to them that things were gonna be different for the next year, maybe two. Christmases would be different, stuff like that. And I just threw myself 110% at it, Aaron.

07:53I didn’t try to hang onto my old career. I didn’t try to get a part-time job. I knew that I would be successful at what I focused myself on, and I just got super, super focused. Took every class that I could. Interviewed other agents. I did all the right things. If somebody gave me an idea and it sounded right, I went and did it.

08:15I door knocked. I did 50 open houses. Made a lot of phone calls, read a lot of books, and eventually got confident enough, made enough sense, knew what I was doing, and was able to help some people and get hired.

Aaron Wittenstein08:31

See, it’s interesting, especially when you see new agents getting in the market, when you see stuff like that, it’s nice. I don’t think, I know that a lot of people struggle in the beginning, and they struggle in the middle, they struggle in the end.

08:44You know what I mean? It’s just a little more struggle at the beginning is the nice way to put it. And so based on where you were and where you are now, okay, what part of your production are you most proud of?

Tim Hawley08:59

Ah, part of my production I’m most proud of. I’m very proud of the fact that I made it as an independent agent.

09:07I’m very proud of the fact that I know myself well enough to know that that’s my lane. I did start a team, worked with four buyer’s agents, and my brokerage encourages team building, and I found that I could make as much money as a single agent as I could with four buyer’s agents, and I enjoyed the work more doing it myself rather than building other agents’ careers.

09:39So, I mean, what am I most proud of? I’m most proud of going through the path and having a career that I enjoy, and, I mean, if this is my time to brag, I’m one of the top agents in my city. So, and every now and then I’ll have a month where I am the top agent, and just like with your first side that you close, now you know you can do it, right?

10:08And your second side you close, now you know you can do it for a career. Well, I’ve been top agent a couple times, so heck, who knows? Maybe I’ll be top agent of the year one of these times instead of just the month. We’ll see.

Aaron Wittenstein10:24

No, I mean, it’s just nice to see that, you know what I mean? And like I said, knowing you, it can’t happen to a better person.

10:32Which is, you know, you’re very… And I don’t say that lightly. You’re a good human being is the best way to put it. You’re welcome. You’re welcome, my friend. And you mentioned to me that you prospect for seven years.

10:46You’re gonna feel a little bit of the burnout, right? It happens. ‘Cause I mean, it happens to all of us. It’s just a question of how long it lasts for. When would you say the burnout started? When did it start happening?

Tim Hawley11:01

You know, I think I struggled consistently from start and through it. Although there are plateaus.

11:09You know what I mean? There are peaks, there are valleys, and there are plateaus. I mean, the beginning really is a struggle. It’s so fearful of, am I gonna be able to make any money at this?

11:23Am I wasting my time? This is in prospecting. This is an activity where you will have 100 conversations and end up with bupkis. Or you might have 100 conversations and end up with 20 clients. But you’ve gotta go through the time to realize that you’re gonna have those peaks and valleys.

11:42I think where I was able to really take a breath was at about the three-year period, and I started getting repeat business from previous clients. This was huge for me, to have the phone ring, pick it up, and have somebody say, “Tim, I would like to list my house with you. We bought the house three years ago, we’re ready to sell, and can you come over and tell us what it’s worth?”

12:05That’s not prospecting, right? That’s just getting to benefit from the fruits of your earlier labors. And I gotta tell you, in order to get that business, you have to stay connected with your clients, too. So maybe that is prospecting, but I don’t know. I suppose I probably had a burnout point at around 2021 as we were coming through COVID, too.

12:30Is this something that I really wanna continue? Am I gonna have to spend the rest of my life making phone calls? Which, by the way, you do. And sort of making that decision that that’s okay, and that there’s enjoyment there to be had. I’ll tell you, Aaron, I think what really got me over the hump of that kind of burnout, though, was in making the phone calls, realizing that I’m there to help the other side.

13:01Certainly I’m there as a business for myself, but I remember specifically one day making phone calls, and I needed a listing, and I’m just grinding through some old, burned out, dead Facebook seller ads that I’d had some response to, to see if there was anything in there, and this woman picked up the phone and she was like, “Oh, I’m so glad you called.

13:22I’ve got such a problem here and I need to move and nobody will buy my house.” And she was stuck because her house was located in a floodplain. And the floodplain had been created by a subdivision that had been built uphill from her. It wasn’t her fault. The city wouldn’t take responsibility, and she needed somebody who would commit to finding a solution.

13:48And that one really was not about commission at all. It was about helping Ruth and getting Ruth moved in with her son, and getting her house sold so that she would have some money to live off of. And that’s where I realized that this job really is about helping people. I think you realize that much more when you work with buyers, because you get that benefit, particularly with new home buyers, moving young marrieds into their houses.

14:14But don’t forget that people, when they sell their houses, this is about them getting the most money they can out of the biggest investment they’ve ever made. And I don’t know. It really helps my heart to be able to look back on the people that I helped. And now I remember a conversation I had with a broker friend of mine in Chicago that I went to high school with, and I was really burned out one day and I called up John and I said, “John, I just can’t make another call.

14:47It’s not that the phone’s heavy, it’s just I’m done.” And he’s like, “What’s going on?” And I told him about a client I had that just took a personal dislike to me. I told him about a client that I had that had been a FSBO, that had been a broker earlier, that decided that I was doing things, what can I say?

15:07Incorrectly. And they’d made a few calls to my broker about how I was handling the situation, and I was just like, I just wasn’t in love with people anymore. And John said, “How many homes have you sold?” And I said, “65.” He says, “How many buyers have you worked with?” And I said, “78.” And he said, “Of those 65 and 78, how many of those people you actually helped do you wish you’d never met?”

15:38Well, I’m glad I met them all. I’m glad I was able to help them all. And he said, “Maybe you need to fire a client every now and then, like this one that’s giving you all this grief.” And that was really good advice, and it really brought me back to think about the people that I had helped, rather than the people who were causing me grief and pain.

15:58And I think it’s important to be aware that you can’t help everybody, and it’s okay to let them go and give them a referral. Does that answer your question or did I get off on a tangent?

Aaron Wittenstein16:12

Because, you know… No, that was great. I mean, ’cause the thing is, you know as well as I do, you can be working with 100 amazing people.

16:19I don’t like calling them clients, they’re people. You know what I mean? They’re not clients, they’re people. And you have one bad apple, one bad apple. That one bad apple will take over the other 100 that you’re working with at that given point. And I think that’s a phenomenal piece of advice.

16:32I really, really do. And the thing is, at least I think you’ll agree with me, when you prospect and you’re building that business on a regular basis, it gives you the ability to pick and choose who you wanna work with, right? Because the thing is, you know what?

16:49Sally Mae’s just not doing it for me, but I can go pick up the phone and based on my numbers… Okay, are you a numbers person at all or no?

Tim Hawley16:57

I am. I’m much more of a proactive person. I mean, I am a numbers person. I know my numbers, but I’m more about, rather than make 100 phone calls to get three pieces of business, I’m more about get on the phone and just be proactive.

17:11Do the activities. It will work out.

Aaron Wittenstein17:14

When you do the activities, results will follow, right?

Tim Hawley17:16

Exactly. That’s a good way to-

Aaron Wittenstein17:16

You know, that’s… I’m a firm believer, and I actually came up with a good one. It was, luck is a by-product of activity. I don’t know. I think it’s good.

17:27I like it. It came off a Cracker Jack box. So, all right. So I know, based on the conversations that we were having before, that you make this prospecting fuel other parts of your life and other parts of your business. Is that correct?

Tim Hawley17:40

Sure. Absolutely. So let’s talk about prospecting, let’s talk about lead source a little bit and how to expand on that, right?

17:48So I got on my wall right here, what’s my top three lead sources? Sphere of influence, expireds, FSBOs, and farming, in that order, right? So one of the things on prospecting then is, if your top thing is sphere of influence, how do you expand your sphere of influence? And I had some great advice given to me by a man named Jason Abrams.

18:15And Jason came to speak and I got to talk to him individually, and I was like, “Jason, I’m just worn out. Doing all these phone calls and stuff like that. I just wanna go out and play golf, have fun, raise my kids.” He’s like, “Well, what can you do to turn golf into lead generation?”

18:40I’m like, “Well, I mean, I’ve got my friends, and they know who it is.” And he’s like, “Well, wait a minute. Let’s just take a real step back. Besides golf…” He says, “I’ve given this advice to many people. What are three things you love to do? And of those three things, what can you do to turn them into lead generation?”

18:56And he told me a story of other agents, where one of them enjoyed shopping, so she put together a shopping club with all of her friends. And she had shopping bags printed with her name and phone number on it. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, I’ll start a golf club.” I’m in Springfield, Missouri.

19:14There’s no public golf club here. There’s no men’s club. Now, there’s a senior group, but I’m not quite there yet. But nobody wants to play ball down competitive golf, and I do. Maybe there’s like-minded people. And that was two years ago. Well, a year and a half ago. We just finished our second season.

19:30I now have 80 members in my golf club.

19:34They all know I’m a real estate agent. I don’t have any other real estate agents in my golf club. I’m not sure how that worked out. But not that everybody… I’ve gotten business out of my golf club, and not that everybody uses me, but if they don’t, they get a two-stroke penalty, which lets the rest of the club know that there are consequences to your actions.

19:57It also gives me the opportunity to lead generate without really having to call anybody up and say, “Do you know anybody who wants to buy, sell, or invest?” Right?

20:05And they all stick their elbows in the guy, like, “Why didn’t you use Tim? What’s going on?” Blah, blah, blah. And so when my wife or somebody says, “Maybe you’re playing too much golf.

20:18You should work harder,” I’m like, “Oh, I’m working hard.”

20:22I’m staying connected. I’m building it. And Aaron, here’s an added benefit that I didn’t expect: because of my love and my passion for golf, and my servant’s heart, where I want my members to have a good club to go into, building that golf club taught me how to build a better business.

20:43Right? ‘Cause I gotta build my membership. Guess what? That’s almost the same thing as building my database.

20:49The activities of it.

20:51So that really was an added benefit. Another thing I did is, I’m sure you know about BNI, right?

Aaron Wittenstein21:00

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tim Hawley21:00

Business Networking International, and-

21:02I was encouraged to go join a BNI group or start a BNI group a long time ago, when I started my real estate business, because BNI is all about giving referrals inside your group. Well, I went and joined Rotary, which is not about business networking or business referrals. It’s about community service.

21:25And guess what’s been the best place for sphere of influence clientele for me? Rotary. Simply donating my time and my energy and a little bit of my money to my community through Rotary. And my Rotarians, who have some disposable income and are able to help their community, well, they also have nicer houses, right?

21:51So to get come-list-mes from these people, I mean, I can’t even tell you. It makes me emotional to think about it, ’cause not only did I make great friends who’ve made my life better, my friends are putting my kids through college, by simply using me because they like me, know me, and trust me through these activities that we do with Rotary.

22:18So those are two things besides Vulcan that I would suggest for people. If you’re looking to grow your sphere, get involved.

22:25With Rotary. Or possibly create something that other people wanna be involved with, and be the central figure of it.

Aaron Wittenstein22:30

Be the celebrity, the local celebrity. So let me ask you this, all right?

22:35This is one question I always ask everybody. New agent, you’re sitting at your desk. New agent knocks on your… He’s like, “Tim, I’ve heard great things about you. Can I have one piece of advice?” What would that piece of advice be?

Tim Hawley22:47

The one piece of advice that I give you is, you need to stay enthusiastic even if you’re not.

22:53It’ll come. Okay? You need to have a lot of energy. All right? When you go into somebody’s house and you sit down at their table to talk to them about the next house they’re gonna buy, or the house that they’re living in that they wanna sell, you better be a pretty positive person. Okay? And they’ll pick up on that energy.

23:12If you’re a negative person, or you’re kind of down, or you’re talking down to them, or you’re making it about you instead of about them,

23:20not so good. I have been hired more times because… ‘Cause I like to find out too, what made you choose me, if there’s more people involved.

23:31And I’m always told, “It’s your energy, it’s your enthusiasm. It’s the fact that we felt that you felt you could do the job, so we’re gonna…” So you can do the job. And on top of enthusiasm, make your phone calls. And be enthusiastic while you make your phone calls. If you’re not having a lot of conversations, Mr.

23:53or Mrs. Newbie, you’re not gonna have a lot of business. You need to have a lot of conversations. And when you feel yourself saying, “Oh, I don’t know if I can sell your house. You’ve got this drainage area next to it. We’re probably gonna have to…” Listen to the tone of my voice. Ama, nama, nama, nama, nama, nama, nama.

24:11It’s not, “Hey, let’s get this thing sold and get you moved on in your life.”

Aaron Wittenstein24:16

Yeah. Almost over the top sometimes. Which makes sense. It’s true, because-

Tim Hawley24:20

Well, you gotta coach them. You gotta build them up. You gotta pour into them and give them your enthusiasm so that they’re enthused too.

Aaron Wittenstein24:26

It’s contagious, right? It’s absolutely contagious.

Tim Hawley24:29

It’s contagious. I’ve got sitting right here next to me… Can we see that? Raise ambition. Not just your own, raise theirs.

24:40Right? Coach them.

Aaron Wittenstein24:42

It’s very true.

Tim Hawley24:42

It’s very true. Don’t pull positive energy.

Aaron Wittenstein24:45

All right, my friend.

24:46This has been great. This is really, really good stuff. Final words. What do you got? What’s your final words before I head out for the day?

Tim Hawley24:54

Oh, I had my first words. Now what are my final words? You know what? My final words are, expires and FSBOs are a great way to expand your sphere of influence.

25:07I think that Aaron really knows what he’s doing. Listen to him. Vulcan’s got fantastic data. Now, expires and FSBOs, they can be difficult. They expired for a reason, okay? And for sale by owners are generally really smart people. They don’t take this job on because they’re afraid that they can’t handle the job, right?

25:31So you really need to show your value to both of these groups, expired and FSBOs. You need to know your value, you need to show it to them, and you need to be enthusiastic about it.

Aaron Wittenstein25:41

All right, Tim, so someone has a referral in the Ozarks. How do they get in touch with you? What’s the best way to get in touch with you?

Tim Hawley25:48

Call Tim Hawley. H-A-W-L-E-Y. My phone number is really easy. 417-323-2323. That number again, 417-323-2323. Michael Jordan, number 23. Three 23s. Call me up.

Aaron Wittenstein26:06

I wanna know, you got the-

Tim Hawley26:06

I will definitely close your deal for you.

Aaron Wittenstein26:09

How much did you have to pay to get that number?

Tim Hawley26:11

500 bucks.

Aaron Wittenstein26:12

That’s the best number I’ve ever seen in my entire real estate career.

26:15Yeah. All right, everybody. Tim, thank you so much. It’s a pleasure catching up with you. We need to talk sooner than later. Your energy is just second to none. And everybody, have an amazing rest of the day. Go make some money. Look out for us on Roadmap. Take care.

Tim Hawley26:29

Make your calls.

Aaron Wittenstein26:30

Bye-bye.