How Bryan Coward turned expired calls into about 25% of his 102 transactions

Bryan Coward00:00

I feel like there’s nothing in life that 20 real estate conversations a day can’t solve. My goal is to make 20 conversations a day. You only get out of it what you put into it. It’s not a big… There’s no secret sauce here. We have two jobs as a real estate agent. We have the job of being a real estate agent, and then we have the job of lead generation, and you can’t be a real estate agent without leads, and you can’t have leads without making contacts.

00:23So I don’t know what it takes for someone else, but I know what it takes for me, and that means getting on the phones at 8:00 AM and making calls.

Aaron Wittenstein00:30

So basically what you’re saying is pick up the phone at 8:00 o’clock in the morning, make some phone calls. And then I love, I still love your line, “There’s nothing that 20 contacts a day can’t fix.”

00:38Right. I think that’s absolutely phenomenal.

Bryan Coward00:40

Yeah. It’s 100% true.

Aaron Wittenstein01:01

Hello, everybody. It’s me, it’s Aaron Wittenstein, and I would like to welcome you all to Vulcan7 Roadmap. This is where we teach you to take one, two, three, 453,633 listings a week. And we have a good friend of mine, he lives a stone’s throw away from me. Honestly, we don’t know each other quite enough yet, but I enjoy his company.

01:20For the last 50 minutes, we’ve been chatting. Mr. Bryan Coward, he’s a realtor out in Tampa Bay. Now, question for you. This is a silly question. I’m a newbie to Florida, so it’s Tampa, not Tampa Bay, correct?

Bryan Coward01:32

Correct.

Aaron Wittenstein01:33

All right, my friend. So, talking a little bit, you said you’ve been a realtor now for five years.

01:39Is that right?

Bryan Coward01:40

Coming up on five years, yeah. So December would be my five-year anniversary, yeah.

Aaron Wittenstein01:44

Congratulations. How do you like it so far?

Bryan Coward01:46

It’s been a blessing, yeah. It’s the best thing I ever did, really.

Aaron Wittenstein01:52

So what did you do before real estate?

Bryan Coward01:54

I had my own production company. So in 2007, I started Lucky Lemon Films and we had a good run.

02:01It was a good life. We did a lot of fun things. I just got to a point where I realized, look, there’s really no way to scale this, or at least I didn’t have the foresight or ability or models and systems to really model myself after to figure out how to do that at a higher level.

02:17And so I kind of figured out I needed to figure another path to set myself up for retirement and a successful future, and then I found real estate.

Aaron Wittenstein02:27

Okay. So you went from film production to real estate. I gotta ask, how did that happen? There’s gotta be a good story there somewhere.

Bryan Coward02:34

I mean, it’s not that really good of a story.

02:36I mean, I just read Rich Dad Poor Dad and realized I was completely lost when it came to handling my own money, so.

Aaron Wittenstein02:43

Got it. Okay. All right. So, not as fun of a story as I would’ve expected there.

02:48So five years doing… Now let me ask, this is just out of my curiosity here.

02:51Does the film production help you out in real estate? I mean, like, what kinda goes…

Bryan Coward02:58

That’s funny. I mean, right. Of course you would think, right, there’s a lot of production aspects as far as social media is concerned, photographing the house, things like that, that would maybe transfer over.

03:10And the truth is, is no. I mean, for me, we would charge a lot of money. And so right now it just doesn’t… It’s kinda like that leverage aspect of real estate. As you grow, you figure you can leverage the less cost productive activities. And for me, that would be the production aspect.

03:29Because my photographer, I pay $150. I mean, that’s, you know.

Aaron Wittenstein03:34

That’s not a bad deal at all. That’s a pretty…

Bryan Coward03:37

Yeah. And the funny thing is, is I think to myself, gosh, how many houses do you have to shoot in order to make a commission on one sale, you know?

Aaron Wittenstein03:44

Right. It makes perfect logical sense, my friend.

03:47So you’re an expired and canceled guy, is that correct?

Bryan Coward03:53

Yeah. I mean, that’s how I built my business, and it’s a huge part of our lead gen today.

Aaron Wittenstein04:00

Okay. So walk me through your system, your process when it comes to the expireds and cancels and whatnot.

04:09Can you…

Bryan Coward04:09

It really all started with Jim Chamberlain and his Take 52 class. I mean, he’s who I owe a deep debt of gratitude and really a huge part of my success too. I mean, he was there and I’m still there in his wonderful class. And following his system is what really gave me the ability to do what I do today, and I just take it and tweak it a little bit now because I’m not spending three hours every morning calling like I did in the beginning of the pandemic.

Aaron Wittenstein04:40

Sure, sure. So how many hours would you say of purposeful lead generation are you putting in right now per day?

Bryan Coward04:46

Well, I try to put in three hours, but now I’m only calling about an hour and a half of expireds and cans, depending on the day.

Aaron Wittenstein04:53

Okay, cool. I mean, you just got too busy?

04:54Is that kinda…

Bryan Coward04:56

You know, I think there’s just other… I’m pursuing other areas of business as well, and I just wanna kind of give everyone its equal time.

Aaron Wittenstein05:05

Sure. Makes sense. Yeah. Makes sense. So, like I said, a good portion of your business comes from expireds.

05:12I mean, you kinda mentioned to me a little bit. I mean, you’ve done over, like… How many have you done?

Bryan Coward05:19

I forget the number. It’s about 25%, so it’s probably over 25, I guess. So it’s 102 transactions and so it’s about 20, 23, 24, I think.

Aaron Wittenstein05:28

Okay. Got it. Cool, cool. So what are you saying to these people when you pick up the phone?

05:33Are you game to role play? Is that something you’re okay with?

Bryan Coward05:37

Okay, yeah.

Aaron Wittenstein05:37

I’m always good for a good role play, so what do you got?

Bryan Coward05:40

All right. So ring, ring.

Aaron Wittenstein05:41

Hello.

Bryan Coward05:42

Yeah. Hey, good morning. My name is Bryan Coward. I’m a local realtor, and I’m sure you’re aware your home has come across our computer as off the market, and I was just calling to see when did you plan on interviewing the right agent for the job of selling your home?

Aaron Wittenstein05:56

I mean, I think we’re just gonna hold off for a little bit. ‘Cause I mean, my cousin’s uncle’s sister’s brother’s mother actually listed the house, and I think we’re gonna wind up re-listing with Sally Mae.

Bryan Coward06:11

Gotcha. So you’re gonna hold off a little bit, but your cousin’s uncle’s sister’s brother’s friend

06:18listed the house, and you think you’re gonna list with Sally Mae, is that correct?

Aaron Wittenstein06:22

You know, that’s what I’m leaning towards right now. Like I said, she’s kinda like family, you know?

Bryan Coward06:27

Makes total sense. I can understand that 100%. Well, let me ask you this. If you sold this home, where would you go to next?

Aaron Wittenstein06:34

We are actually moving to Tampa.

Bryan Coward06:39

Oh, wow, you’re moving to Tampa. What brings you there?

Aaron Wittenstein06:42

My family is in Tampa.

Bryan Coward06:47

Moving closer to family. Well, that’s definitely a good reason to move. So what do you think stopped this home from selling that you had it on the market? I mean, it looks like such a beautiful place.

Aaron Wittenstein06:55

You know what? I mean, it’s gotta be our interesting paint choices on the inside. We have like all orange and purple walls. So if I had to guess, it would be the orange and purple walls.

Bryan Coward07:06

Yeah. Well, that makes sense. It’s definitely a unique color choice, I will say that, for sure.

07:11Well, so having said that, how did you happen to pick the last agent you listed with?

Aaron Wittenstein07:17

Like I said, it was my family member’s family member’s cousin’s

07:20agent brother’s mother.

Bryan Coward07:21

Just ’cause you knew him. That makes sense. And anything that they did you like best?

Aaron Wittenstein07:27

Well, I mean, they were…

07:29It’s a great question. I mean, they would call us every now and again and kinda give us market updates, and they did like 53 open houses over the span of two weeks. Yeah, it was pretty impressive.

Bryan Coward07:40

That is impressive. Awesome. Well, anything you felt they could have done or should have done better?

Aaron Wittenstein07:45

They should have done more open houses.

Bryan Coward07:47

Open houses. More than 53, wow. That’s a lot of open houses, Aaron. Well, what would you expect from the next agent you choose?

Aaron Wittenstein07:55

I would just, I mean, I’d like to get the house sold. That’s what I’m looking at here because, like I said, we wanna get to Tampa as quick as possible, and I gotta move on here.

Bryan Coward08:05

Amen. Do our job, right? Get the home sold. That makes sense. Get to Tampa as quickly as possible. Well, have you already chosen an agent to work with?

Aaron Wittenstein08:12

Like I said, we may wind up re-listing with Sally Mae.

Bryan Coward08:16

That makes sense. Well, let me ask you this. If I could show you a different way, one that actually gets your home sold this time, would that be worth 10 or 15 minutes of your time?

08:24I mean, I’ll be honest with you, Aaron, I work with many people just like you, who have had their home sit on the market for months, even years with another agent, and I’ve gotten it sold right away, and I’m truly confident I could do the same for you. So I’ll be available tomorrow after 3:00 or Thursday after 5:00.

08:41What works better for you?

Aaron Wittenstein08:42

Well, I mean, what would you do differently?

Bryan Coward08:44

What would I do differently? Well, for starters, we would get the home sold. That would be our number one goal, Aaron. But listen, it only takes about 10 or 15 minutes of your time, and that’ll be exactly what we’ll talk about as soon as I get there.

Aaron Wittenstein08:56

Okay, sure. Come on over.

Bryan Coward08:57

Awesome. Well, and before I get there, I just have a few more questions I wanna ask so I can make sure we keep the meeting under 30 minutes, and then I would go into my pre-qual.

Aaron Wittenstein09:05

John, you know what I love about what you did, is I’m always a firm believer, and I think you’ll agree, that it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.

09:14And the way that you emphasize certain words and your tonality, it was good. And you sounded genuinely excited about the conversation. So that was a really good job. You did a very nice job, my friend.

Bryan Coward09:28

Well, I do get excited. That is true.

Aaron Wittenstein09:30

I can tell. I can tell. But the thing, it’s not a bad thing. It radiates through the phone. You know what I mean? Okay. So, no, no, no, it was not bad at all, because a lot of people that wind up making these calls, and you know this as well as I do, is that they’re not excited. And it wasn’t an over-the-top excitement.

09:49It was like a genuine excitement, and I don’t think, I know that’s why you’re having success. So all right. So you’re lead generating between an hour and three hours a day, right? So what does the rest of your day look like?

Bryan Coward10:02

Well, I mean, there’s a lot of different…

10:04I mean, obviously time for appointments in the afternoon. And then there’s other things that I’m doing to help grow the business that involve script and role play, and administrative stuff. Lead follow-up is a big part that I try to focus on too, is making sure that I don’t mix up the two, right?

10:28There’s a difference between lead generation and lead follow-up. And a lot of times too, these people aren’t ready to list today. And does that mean that I’m not interested in talking to them ever again? No. I mean, they’re future business. And a lot of times some of my best sales with Vulcan through calling expireds have been a one-call close, but also have been a long-term nurture and follow-up.

Aaron Wittenstein10:53

Sure. So there’s a lot of people that they hear the word follow-up and they’re like, “What do I do? What do I do with follow-up? I don’t know what to do.”

Bryan Coward11:03

I think for everyone it’s different, right? So I have a very different personality than my assistant, for example.

11:10And so her way of following up is completely different than mine, you know? So you have to figure out what works best for you. Yet what I will say is that, I think the stat from Vulcan is, and obviously I don’t know if this is 100% accurate, but it sounds correct to me, is that 41% of all expired listings list with a real estate agent within the next 30 days.

11:32And that sounds about accurate to me. And so I need to continuously follow up with them if I wanna get their business. And generally speaking, I feel like most listings that happen, they hire the first agent they see, right? I mean, and so I wanna be the first one in the door.

11:50And so whatever that takes, if that’s calling 10 days in a row, if that’s putting them on some sort of nurture plan from afar through your system, whether it’s a combination of touches, emails and calls, it just depends on where you’re at in that sort of funnel, so to speak, as far as how hot of a prospect they are.

Aaron Wittenstein12:10

All right. So let’s say theoretically you get one, you’re like, “Whoa, I want this listing.” It’s just like, whoa. You see it, you’re like, “That’s in my neighborhood.” You know what I mean? “They didn’t list with me, I want that darn listing,” okay?

12:24What do your follow-ups, what does your system look like to be able to make sure you can get that listing on Main Street?

Bryan Coward12:30

So an expired listing that I really, really wanted, that would mean I would call them every single day until they picked up the phone or told me to, you know, go fly a kite, you know?

Aaron Wittenstein12:42

Are you doing anything on top of the calls? Are you doing emails or anything like that, dropping off any stuff? I mean, ’cause I’m a phone call guy, that’s usually what I do.

Bryan Coward12:48

Yeah. Generally speaking, no. But if I wanted it that bad, it’s something that was that important and they were literally in my neighborhood, that would be a different story.

12:56I may do more things like that, for sure.

Aaron Wittenstein12:59

Okay. So let’s say you have 90 minutes or two hours to make phone calls. What’s your system look like to make those phone calls? Do you call one, two, three, four, if you’ve got any, like the tiers?

Bryan Coward13:12

Oh, yeah. So I use Jim Chamberlain’s 10-folder system.

13:17Yeah. It’s awesome. It’s basically call one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, and then I use different months as well, too. And so basically what it looks like is every time I’m on the phone, I disposition the call to the next folder. Unless of course I set the appointment, then I’ll move it to appointment, or I blow the lead out and I move it to a dead folder.

13:36But yeah, if they don’t answer, I move them down the folder tree until they get to the 10th folder. And if I’ve never connected, they just kinda sit in that 10th folder.

Aaron Wittenstein13:45

That’s what I’m talking about.

13:47So you’re just going down, you’re calling folder one, then you call folder two, then three

13:52then four, then five, then so on and so forth. Got it. Okay.

Bryan Coward13:53

I use the, what is it called? The main sheet at the bottom of the dialer, and then I just clean that out every day, and I just add to that list every day so that I have a fresh sheet every day when I call.

Aaron Wittenstein14:05

Exactly. That’s the best way to do it. So then, I know, like you said, you mentioned follow-up. Are you doing follow-up right after your initial lead gen, or what does that look like?

Bryan Coward14:14

Generally in the afternoon after lunch. So, like, from 1:00 to 2:00 or 2:00 to 3:00, depending on my schedule.

Aaron Wittenstein14:20

Got it. And what are you seeing contact-wise in a day? How many contacts are you getting a day, would you say?

Bryan Coward14:26

I mean, I feel like there’s nothing in life that 20 real estate conversations a day can’t solve. Do I always make 20 contacts? No, I don’t. I try, but I don’t. I’m a talker, so sometimes my conversations go 30 or 40 minutes, and so I kind of screw myself with that.

14:43But yeah, I mean, I guess to answer the question, my goal is to make 20 conversations a day.

Aaron Wittenstein14:51

What do you consider a contact? This is always a point of contention for people. What is a contact to you?

Bryan Coward14:58

Well, a contact to me when I’m calling expireds and cancels is when someone picks up the phone, because that’s a trackable metric, you know?

15:06So that’s what I consider a contact. Now, if I’m calling outside of cancels or expireds… Listen, I have the right number if it’s in my database, so there’s no excuse not to make a contact if someone picks up the phone. But in this case, I think it’s a little bit of a different metric, and I think you just have to figure out what’s trackable for you.

Aaron Wittenstein15:29

Sure. I mean, yeah, no, and like I said, that’s why it’s always a point of contention, is the best way to put it. Because myself, I look at it as a two-way conversation about real estate.

15:37That’s the way I’ve always looked at it. You pick up the phone, “Hi, this is Aaron.” “I’m not interested,” click.

15:42That’s a contact. If they say wrong number, not a contact. If you have a conversation, it’s… Like I said, there’s no right or wrong way to do it. I’ve just always found that’s always worked rather well in regards to myself. Now, with your numbers, ’cause on top of being a systems person, are you a numbers person too?

Bryan Coward15:59

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Aaron Wittenstein16:01

Yeah, I can tell. When he told me off the bat earlier, I’m like, “Bryan,” he’s like, “24.3% of my transactions are expireds and cancels.” And I’m like, “Okay, we got a numbers person here.” Do you know your numbers well enough in regards to how many contacts you have to make an appointment and stuff like that?

16:17Do you have those metrics?

Bryan Coward16:19

I do. I do track that. I don’t know that offhand.

Aaron Wittenstein16:22

That’s okay. Yeah. No worries, no worries, no worries. Here’s what I’ve found, okay? And this is what I’ve studied over the last couple years. And tell me what you think about it, because like you said, you’re a numbers person.

16:32When you speak to 100 people, you should get one appointment for every 33 contacts, which equals three appointments a week, right? And then out of those three, one will cancel or disqualify, which you’re gonna do right off the bat because you’re pre-qualifying. And then out of that gives you two appointments.

16:47And out of those two should convert at a minimum of 50%. Do that 40 weeks out of the year, that’s 40 listings taken, just from talking to 20 people a day, as you said. There’s nothing that 20 people a day will not… I love that. I’m gonna write that down and put that on my blank wall right over there, okay?

17:02Oh, man. Oh, man. Oh, man. All right, so let me ask you this. So I ask this question to absolutely everybody, all right? You’re in your office, okay? And a brand new agent comes and knocks on your door, all right? You open the door like, “Hey, how you doing?” The agent’s like, “Give me one piece of advice.”

17:22What’s that one piece of advice that you would give that agent?

Bryan Coward17:26

The one piece of advice, I mean, is you only get out of it what you put into it, you know? It’s not a big… There’s no secret sauce here. We have two jobs as a real estate agent.

17:39We have the job of being a real estate agent, and then we have the job of lead generation. And you can’t be a real estate agent without leads, and you can’t have leads without making contacts. So I don’t know what it takes for someone else, but I know what it takes for me, and that means getting on the phones at 8:00 AM and making calls.

Aaron Wittenstein17:55

So basically what you’re saying is pick up the phone at 8:00 o’clock in the morning, make some phone calls. And then I love, I still love your line, “There’s nothing that 20 contacts a day can’t fix.” Right. I think that’s absolutely phenomenal.

Bryan Coward18:05

Yeah. That’s 100% true.

Aaron Wittenstein18:08

I would say you’re only four or five listings away from having the money that you need, right?

18:10You know, it’s kinda

18:12as well. Yeah. So, okay. Got it. And then you said you’re also doing a little bit of teaching too. Is that right?

Bryan Coward18:19

Yeah, I do a little bit. I’m on the ALC in our Market Center here at Keller Williams, and then I do a couple different classes and courses and things like that to kind of help agents achieve their goals and kind of model what I’ve done to achieve the success I’ve had.

Aaron Wittenstein18:37

That’s awesome, man. That’s awesome. And so, all right, as we part ways here today, what are your final words for everybody out here in Vulcan7 Land?

Bryan Coward18:50

The truth is, is that a lot of times you can just stumble right into a listing. You know what I mean? If you’re making the calls… Like kinda you said it earlier too about my tonality, right?

19:01You don’t have to say everything right, you know? It’s the intent behind what you’re saying and the way you’re saying it. Like you’re saying, I sounded excited, right? If someone gets on the phone and sounds excited, they don’t even have to say the right words. They can maybe win the person over and recognize that, hey, this is the solution to my issue right now.

19:19I’m gonna get my house listed, and you’re the first person to call, so why not? Let’s have you over. You know? I mean, I just sold a listing, they didn’t even know they were listed. They thought they were selling their home to like an iBuyer or a company who was wholesaling it, gave them a price, and then put it on the market trying to get more.

19:40But I truly did help them because they had already purchased their home, they were in the process of moving, and they had to get their home sold, and we got it sold.

Aaron Wittenstein19:47

All right, my friend. I appreciate you hanging out with me today. So, you’re welcome. You’re welcome. So let’s say somebody has a referral in Tampa, because they will, we got a ton of people watching this across the country, across the world.

19:59How do they, what’s the best way to get in touch with you?

Bryan Coward20:02

You can give me a call. My phone number is 727-542-8614, or you can shoot me an email at bryan@bryancoward.com.

Aaron Wittenstein20:11

Beautiful. All right, my friend, thank you so much. I genuinely appreciate it. Everyone out here in Vulcan7 Roadmap land, watch out for other amazing episodes.

20:19And everybody, let’s give a big round of applause for my guy, Bryan Coward, out of Tampa. All right. Thank you. Not Tampa Bay. Not Tampa Bay. All right, brother. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time. Same here. Everybody go make some money, okay?

Bryan Coward20:27

All right, see ya.

Aaron Wittenstein20:28

All right, be well.