How Dean Clark lists 1 in 10 expireds and qualifies them with 5 seller questions

Dean Clark00:00

But you get the appointment, then the next question is, well, are they qualified? How do you know that they’re gonna be qualified? So I’ve developed the five core seller questions. So you just need to know where are they planning on going, how soon do they wanna make it happen, why are they looking to sell, what price is their expectation on this house, and then the last thing is, what’s most important to them in an agent that they wanna choose next?

00:21And if you can get those five questions answered, then you’re golden. You pretty much have it. So I transfer from get the appointment, and then the wealth of information generally opens up, and then you can ask the five core seller questions.

Aaron Wittenstein00:53

Hey, what’s going on everybody? It’s me, it’s Aaron Wittenstein, and I would like to welcome you to Vulcan7 Roadmap. This is a place we teach how to take one, two, three, 363 additional listings a week, and we’ve got someone here that’s actually amazing. I had a conversation a bit before. Mr. Dean Clark out of Hoboken in Jersey City, New Jersey.

01:13Dean, how you doing, my friend? And so I talk to a lot of agents on a regular basis, and a lot of them say that we have listing inventory. There’s not enough listings, for lack of better terms.

01:30What’s your opinion on that? What do you think about that?

Dean Clark01:33

I think it’s just all mindset. Is there a lack of inventory for you to go after business, or is it a lack of having a self-awareness about where your market is currently? What I mean by that is look at your MLS, and if there are deals being closed every single day and listings being taken every single day, then is it really a problem with the market, or is it a problem with you not going after those listings on a daily basis?

Aaron Wittenstein02:02

So what you’re trying to tell me here is that there’s still business being done and transactions being, for lack of better terms, transacted across the country regardless of what the inventory says. Is that right?

Dean Clark02:14

Yeah. I mean, look, I don’t understand why some agents seem to think that sometimes magically the phone is just gonna blow up and light up if they’re not spending a quarter of a million a year on marketing dollars, versus hitting the pavement like we do every single day and actually going after it and then making the phone ring.

02:36There’s more than enough business to be had despite 2 million less transactions in the market. That’s fine. Let the media talk about that to the public, it’s all good. But just look at the data. Look at the facts that are surrounding your MLS. And again, if I go back to that, have some self-awareness around that, you see that there’s listings being taken every single day.

02:57I mean, even today on a Friday before Thanksgiving, I have 20 market, Liberty taking these people that wanna sell, and I’m talking to people every single day that wanna sell. The question is, do you have multiple sources, and do you have the work ethic and the skills and the leverage to have many conversations to find those people?

Aaron Wittenstein03:20

Exactly. So what you’re saying is more conversations, number one, gets to more people, which gets to more opportunity, which gets more listings. Is that right?

Dean Clark03:28

Yeah. I mean, correct. But a lot of us have heard this before. They think there’s some secret sauce of how I speak, or how my partner Rich speaks, or someone else that is out there like you.

03:41They hear you, it’s like, “Oh, well, he’s Aaron. Of course he’s gonna get listings.” Well, how dumb is it sometimes that we hear this? Because there’s nothing special about how we do it. We just do it, you know? And I think there’s a lot of fear around the rejection also.

03:58So there’s a case in point that I had, and something that worked for me, is that we have a small prospecting group called Phone Warriors. People are watching other people prospect at a high level. Now, I’m saying this because it’s interesting that when you have people watching you and there’s accountability to that, you talk differently sometimes than you being by yourself on your own with no camera on, no one in back of you, no one in front of you.

04:25So I would suggest getting in the right environments. That would be the first suggestion. You need exposure. New agents, veteran agents that wanna take more listings, it’s watching this, right? Vulcan7 Roadmap. Are you watching this every single week? Are you participating in what Vulcan7 has to offer to you outside of just the numbers every single day?

04:42There’s a whole slew of other things you could be tapping into. I think it’s a lack of exposure and a lack of agents taking the initiative to plug into what’s available to them, in my opinion, to get the information and the knowledge so that they can actually scale their business and take more listings every single day.

Aaron Wittenstein05:00

Exactly. And the nice part is, when you’re actually in it doing it, you’re getting a really good feel as to what’s going on in the market. So what are you having success with right now? Where’s the majority of the bulk of your business coming from right now?

Dean Clark05:13

So the majority and the bulk of the business is really expireds and database.

05:18So those are the two that have really been working for us this year. Now, you could say, “Oh, hey, there’s not a lot of expireds out there,” right? Okay, that’s fine. But are you calling them the right way? And let me…

05:30I’ll explain. So a lot of us are trained by an old school mentality that we need to just call one time, maybe a couple times in a day, and then throw them out if they’re not picking up the phone. But we’re in 2023, and I just did a video about this actually on my Instagram page, and it’s like a lack of response does not mean a lack of motivation.

05:55And I think that we get in our own heads about how much it takes to call those people, and stop worrying about bothering them. Like, as an example, are you calling the expireds three times before 8:30 in the morning? Three times in a row if they don’t pick up. Again, I don’t really see a lot of people doing that.

06:13And then also you gotta be first. This isn’t like, “Yes, I’ve heard other agents say you don’t gotta be first,” whatever. If you’re not first, then be last. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but I would also wanna be last, because it’s at the beginning of the day, before their day gets started, and then towards the end of the day.

06:31Middle of the day is also good too, but you gotta hit them hard before they really get going on their day. That would be my recommendation on the expired. That’s what’s been working for us and really our team. And then the database portion of it, are you calling them quarterly or bimonthly?

06:48Or every two months, rather. Sending a physical mail each month, and then doing two email blasts of basically market stats on there as well. I mean, it’s basically building frequency and familiarity with expireds and database, which is why I think for us, we’re gonna be doing about 60 or so deals for our market, which is super competitive here,

07:10and I think has attributed to that success.

Aaron Wittenstein07:12

That’s amazing. And you’re doing the work, and when you put in the work, you get the results. It’s that simple. So how many hours of expireds right now are you putting in, and how many hours of database right now are you putting into your prospecting efforts?

Dean Clark07:29

It’s a very good question. So database, it depends. Some days I like to spend an hour in the database a day. So that’s past clients, sphere, other agents that you referred business to or you got business from, and that’s really what the database to me means. And that doesn’t mean, by the way, database could also mean some old Zillow leads that you have or old realtor.com leads or whatever, but that’s not really people that know, like, and trust you yet, right?

07:56And so the database is, you wanna spend at least an hour of your prospecting time with the people that know, like, and trust you. That’s the first thing that I know is, again, working for us. And then for the expireds, I mean, I wanna be done with those as fast as humanly possible.

08:12I hear agents a lot, especially even in our group as well, and they go and they spend on one source, which is, as an example, the expireds, they’re on them all day. And I’m like, “Well, how is that working out for you?” Because you’re calling one source, it’s just too long.

08:29You should be in and out of these expireds from like 8:00 to 8:30 tops. And then if you have nothing else to call for the rest of the day, go at 12 o’clock in the noontime, 1 o’clock. That doesn’t work, then try them again. So really, the total committed time of the day, you should be no more than an hour calling expireds a day, tops.

08:47That’s like 100% tops on that, yeah.

Aaron Wittenstein08:50

So what you’re saying is you wanna bounce around sources, right? I mean, what’s your opinion? So if a source isn’t hitting for 10, 15, 20 minutes, do you think it makes sense to just go right back into something else, bounce around a bit? I mean, we…

09:03Right. So, like, if you’re not getting the result,

Dean Clark09:06

Basically, the question is, if I’m not getting a response, let’s say, from expireds, do I just go to the next source, right? So the answer is, by 11:00, 12 o’clock, if you’re gonna, let’s say, commit to three hours of prospecting a day as an example, in that three hours, if you have a big enough database, people that know, like, and trust you, and you could spend an hour doing all of those, great, then that would be worth your hour.

09:38If you don’t, let’s say you have maybe just a couple handful of past clients, not that many sphere influences, and then you have a couple agent referrals in there, you should be in and out within 20, 30 minutes. But you should have six to seven sources that you’re calling through in the first three hours of your day.

09:55And they could be, for instance, what I do is expired, FSBO, FRBO, then I go right to my database. And then if at that point it’s taken me all that time and I’ve reached all of my numbers from there, and I still haven’t set like one QLA for the day, then I will go ahead and call just sold and circle prospect for the next hour.

10:14So now I’ve hit like five sources up until 12:00 o’clock. And by the way, guess the best part about this whole thing and this conversation right now, Aaron? It’s that Vulcan7 supplies my first three lead sources of the day every single day. So it’s great.

Aaron Wittenstein10:29

So a QLA, I’m assuming, means qualified listing appointment.

10:32Is that right? Okay. Got it. Got it. So I’m a firm believer myself in intros, in regards to what you say right off the… I should say your hook, if you will. So when you’re calling an expired or a for sale by owner, what’s your hook?

10:51Like what are you saying with that first line to grab them, to bring them in?

Dean Clark10:59

Well, we have to also upgrade our software programming. And again, I was MFO trained for many years, so fine. I’m now with a new company, Watson Powers. But the coaching of that was more along the lines of the fact that we have to close a ton more now, because

11:14everyone has access to information, and you need to get the convenience factor. You have to just close harder now. And so what I’ve implemented, because of everything I’ve heard from other agents across the country through Vulcan7 and other places, is that you have to be closing after each question that you ask.

11:31So it would look something like, “Hey, Aaron. I saw your property come up over our MLS list, and that shows us what’s available. Just curious to see when we can meet, preferably later this afternoon, that I can show you a completely different approach on how to get your property sold.” And then they say, “It’s not off the market,” whatever they want.

11:46Or they say, “Yes, fine. Great.” I’ve gotten those before. It happens. Like one out of 10, that does happen. But then from there it’s like, okay, so they say, “I took it off the market.” Got it. “So did your plans change altogether? Like it just doesn’t make sense for you? Or financially, do you feel like it’s not a good time to sell?”

12:03So I want to get an idea of where they are at in their process. But then I close. So no matter if you tell me, “I don’t think it’s a good time to sell.” “Hey, you know what? A lot of people were in your same situation. Interesting though, in the last like 30 days, I sold two properties that were similar to yours.

12:21So I’ll tell you what, I’ll meet you at 5:00 today, or I can meet you in an hour, whichever you prefer.” I’m just going for it. Expireds need to be hit. You have to. It’s the whole, when are you planning on interviewing an agent? Then if you sold, where are you planning on moving to?

12:39No one’s got time for that anymore, and not in this market at least. That’s what I’ve found. And so we have to just go into it and just get it done. But then you can ask those pre-qualifying… Now, someone asked it the other day. They said, “All right, well, D, let’s say you get the appointment,” and they, after like the second ask that you ask.

12:57Okay, fine. You’d be surprised, by the way, how many people will be like, “Well, I can’t do five. Can I do like four?” And I’m like, “Oh, sure. Yeah, let’s go.” You know? And so on that point, though, if you get the appointment, let’s say that soon, then the next question is, well, are they qualified?

13:13How do you know that they’re gonna be qualified? Okay, so I’ve developed for myself and for my team, especially for expireds, and also for every other lead source you could potentially get that may not wanna talk to you as much, or you get the appointment and you’re kind of moving on, the five core seller questions.

13:31So you just need to know where are they planning on going? How soon do they wanna make it happen? Why are they looking to sell? What price is their expectation on this house? And then the last thing is, what’s most important to them in an agent that they wanna choose next?

13:46And if you can get those five questions answered, then you’re golden. You pretty much have it. But if the guy says to you on the phone, obviously, Aaron, they say to us, “Oh, well, they were listed at 600, and now they want 700.” Am I really going to go on that? Probably not.

14:01And I’ll probably call him a couple hours later and say, “Look, we have an appointment at 5:00. I saw the data out there. Aaron, just tell me, is there anything that you did to upgrade this property that I’m not seeing online that doesn’t match up to it?” And then you can go into it.

14:14‘Cause if he’s a real seller, he’ll answer that question. And if he’s not, he’s gonna be like, “Well, it doesn’t really matter. Aren’t you the agent?” You know. So we hear all these different things, but you just gotta get in the door. So I transfer from get the appointment, and then the wealth of information generally opens up, and then you can ask the five core seller questions.

Aaron Wittenstein14:33

No, that’s really good. So basically, the nice part about it, you’re going right for it, which is something that I do as well myself. But a lot of agents will go on appointments that aren’t QLAs. I’m gonna steal that term by the way, QLA. They go on these appointments that aren’t as qualified, if you will.

14:51Because, like I said, there’s nothing wrong with going on an appointment that’s not qualified, yet we wanna use the highest and best use of our time. It’s based on where we’re at. And so let me ask you this. I’m not sure if you’re a numbers person or not, but if you are, do you know, like, it takes me this many contacts to get this many appointments, to get this many closed, to get this amount of money?

15:11Do you know those numbers?

Dean Clark15:12

Yes, I do. Yeah.

Aaron Wittenstein15:14

Would you mind sharing?

Dean Clark15:15

Is the question more of, like, what’s my ratio? Yes, of course. So basically, if we’re talking about expireds, it’s one in 10 I’m getting a listing from, from calling. Every 10 legitimate expireds that I’m calling, with closing the way that you and I do it,

15:30I’m getting listings signed. Okay? And let’s be honest, just going back to the qualification of that listing. Let’s say we get the appointment pretty soon. I wanna just isolate that for a second, ’cause everyone gets tripped up on that, and they follow an old school, 1970s mentality around when you had all the cards and you had all the information before there was an internet.

15:50Plus, it’s not the market of 2008 anymore. So when you have so much less inventory, it’s the inventory that is the prize. But you and I both agree, right? I would assume that what is the number one thing that makes a property qualified? It’s really two things.

16:10It’s the price, but really more, it’s the motivation, but the motivation also caves into the price.

Aaron Wittenstein16:16

Right. Exactly. Sometimes price is secondary to motivation, at least from what I find. I could tell stories for days when price just didn’t even matter anymore.

16:29So that’s extremely valid when you say that. And I find it to be extremely impressive that when you have 10 ready-to-go expireds, you’re gonna list one of them. And those numbers are just absolutely amazing. And like I said, I love what you say with this stuff.

16:44What’s the most common objection that you’re getting nowadays? What would you say?

Dean Clark16:48

Well, right now, because we’re getting into Thanksgiving, it’s the, “I’m gonna wait for the holidays to happen,” you know? And I think that we need to flush that out. They basically say, “Hey, you know what, Dean?

16:57I’m gonna wait for the holidays. Just call me next year,” and we can do it then. Yeah, it’s totally fine. Let me ask you, though: is it because you just don’t want people checking through your house because you’re setting up for the holidays? Or do you need to feel like it was a good time to financially sell right now?

17:09So you have to flush out what is really the actual objection there. ‘Cause it may not be that they had no offers, but maybe to them they’re just like, “I have to keep on doing this process all the time? I don’t wanna keep on doing that half the time.” So it’s really digging deeper and not being afraid to be so curious about what’s going on in their situation.

17:29So that’s the biggest, the holiday objection. But sometimes they’re just done with the process. But I’ve gotten so many other appointments, but you gotta just flush it out. Flush out the objection. Don’t be scared to ask them.

17:42Just be curious about it, genuinely curious about their situation and their needs. And by the way, I will say this, though. This is a big miss I see with a lot of agents. So one of my old coaches way back in the day, we had a referral income goal. So referral income, meaning I refer you, Aaron, down in Florida, let’s say,

18:02a lead, and then you pay me a referral fee, right? Agents, we do this all the time. Right? This is agent referral business, right? Okay. When you call an expired, or you call a FSBO for that matter, okay? What are the chances that FSBOs are actually selling in this market? Pretty good.

18:16Or at least they’re getting activity, they’re getting offers, right? So where else can you go? So many agents, they stop when there’s not a deal, a listing to be had right there on the spot. They’re like, “Oh, okay. Sorry, sir. I’m gonna go ahead,” or, “Sorry, ma’am.” But what about this: “Hey, guess what?

18:33No, no, you know what, Dean?” This is also something I get a lot. “Hey, Dean, I already listed with another agent.” I say, “Oh, do you have a signed listing agreement?” You have to ask that question. Do you have a signed listing agreement with that agent?

18:48They say yes, and then I say, “Great. Hey, listen, now that you’ve figured this part out in your entire process, selling it, which is fantastic for you, let me ask you, when you do sell the property, where are you planning on moving to?” Now, if they say, “I’m looking to move down to Florida,” “Great. Well, you know what?”

19:03And then I would ask maybe some more questions there. “How soon do you wanna be down there by? What does it all look like?” If they say anything like, “Why do you need to know all this information?” “Well, the reason I ask, I’m so glad you brought that up. The reason I asked that question is because I have a fantastic referral partner down there for you in Sarasota, in Fort Lauderdale, in Boca Raton, that I would love to connect you with.

19:23Are you still looking for that property?” “Yes, I am.” And I’ve gotten this countless times. And they’re like, “Great.” “What I’m gonna do now, once we get off the phone, are you open to a second opinion, to work with a different agent or work with an agent down there?” Yes, most of the time. And the way you phrase that question, though, Aaron…

19:39And then now I have a goal. Each year I bump it up by about 10 grand. Last year I made 50 grand from referral fees, and then this year is gonna be about the same. And so what you wanna ask, the closing question to see if they’re open to it after qualifying them to see on the buy side where they’re at, is, “Hey, do you have an agent that you’re working with?

20:01Or would you be open to a second opinion?” So that’s something that we do, and I think agents stop way too short of the prize, which is not just that, but it’s also that. And then guess what the best part is about that? If I connect the lead with Aaron down there on the buy side, well, guess what?

20:20Now Aaron’s gonna keep me posted on whether their property up here is selling. So now it’s a two for one approach, and Aaron says, “Yo, he hasn’t sold his property yet. Go get him.” Awesome. I got it before it comes off the market for sale. So now you’re prospecting. I had someone shadow me this week, Aaron.

20:37Aaron. And by the way, cut me off at any time if I’m rambling here, but I just wanna share this. I had someone shadowing me and doing what I was doing in my business this week. And I said, “Well, what’s the one takeaway that you got from this week?” He goes, “D, prospecting I thought was one-dimensional, and now I realize it’s three-dimensional.”

20:58Meaning that we just pick up the phone to ask one question. If I don’t get the right answer, I’m done. And it’s like, “No, stop stopping so short.” You know what I mean? And so that’s the biggest lesson I can take away from expireds and FSBOs right now.

Aaron Wittenstein21:11

It’s funny, you just completely alluded to my next question.

21:14Because the thing is that I always ask, an agent walks across your door, knocks on your door and says, “Dean, I got one question for you. What piece of advice do you have for me?” And you just gave it to me, which is actually amazing. I didn’t realize prospecting was three-dimensional rather than one-dimensional.

21:30And what I love is you got some really, really good ideas there, you know? And it’s impressive, but I think the part is, you’re excited about it, and you enjoy it. And there’s a lot of people that I speak with that are like, “Oh, ugh, I gotta pick up the phone again. It’s time to prospect.”

21:46Or they call it cold calling. “I got a cold call.” And you love it, man. And it’s just exciting to see that. And let me ask you, so when it comes to prospecting, what is your absolute favorite part about it? Other than taking listings, what’s your favorite part about prospecting?

Dean Clark22:04

I would say there’s two

22:05things. That’s a great question. I think there’s two things that I love about it. Number one, I’m in control. I’m a control freak, to a certain extent, about my own personal activities. And so I love the fact that I don’t have to… I know some agents do heavy marketing, and they can’t control what comes into them, which again, is another form of business, way of operating business.

22:25But when I’m finding business every day, I feel that sense of control that I have over my conversations, my skill set, the way I’m doing it, and it’s just so much more methodical that way, and efficient the way I do it. And then the second thing I would say is, I love it because we judge people way too quick in this world, honestly.

22:46We judge everyone. Oh, the way that they look. Like, “Oh, you’re not a real producer. You’re not a real seller. You’re not a real buyer. What do you know that I don’t know?” And I love that about it, ’cause it’s so unpredictable, but yet it’s still predictable, if that makes sense.

23:00In other words, I don’t know what they’re gonna say, who they really are, how many properties that they actually own. I spoke to a guy, he’s wearing like ripped jeans, older guy. I walked in on the appointment, I was like, “There’s no way this guy even owns the property,” I felt like.

23:17It was like, doesn’t make any sense. It was like a million two. And he was like, “Yeah, I just kinda got tired of managing all these rental units and…” ‘Cause obviously we’re in Jersey City, Hoboken, so I deal with rentals a lot. And he apparently owns like 20 properties all up and down the coast here in Jersey.

23:35And I’m like, “What the…” My immediate judgment of that client was like, “This guy doesn’t own anything.” So I think that’s the two things. It’s the unpredictability, and never judging anyone is so cool, because it’s a meritocracy in real estate, which I love.

23:55And then at the same time, it’s being in control of what I’m doing.

Aaron Wittenstein23:59

Perfect. No, I love it. I like that a lot, what you just said. Dean, I wanna say thank you so much for being here today. Genuinely appreciate it. Phenomenal stuff. Everybody needs to watch this one. For all the referrals coming in and out of Jersey City or Hoboken, or whether they wanna get in touch with you about Phone Warriors, how do they get in touch with you?

24:18What’s the best way?

Dean Clark24:19

Best way, find me on social, @deanclarkgroup, and then they can also find the Phone Warriors group on Facebook. Just type in Phone Warriors in the Facebook search there, and you’ll find our group, and just join for free. Put in your email, and everyone’s good to go.

Aaron Wittenstein24:35

Beautiful. All right, my friend, thank you so much for being here. This is not the last you and I have spoken, by the way. We will definitely connect. And I just wanna say thank you very much for your time, and have an amazing rest of the day, all right?