Matthew Wynter’s nearly $10 million second year, built on unreasonable hospitality

Matthew Wynter00:00

When you hear people will always forget what you say, people may forget what you do, but they always remember how you made them feel. And so my goal has always been, and part of why I believe that I’ve been as successful as I have in a relatively short amount of time, is because I really put myself in the shoes of whomever I’m interacting with and think about what would great service look like if it were me.

00:20And if that means I have to give what’s called unreasonable hospitality, then absolutely, I’ll go above and beyond to be able to make sure that they will remember me, because it may not necessarily be something that we can transact on in the moment, but hopefully down the line that feeling will always be something that they’ll be synonymous with me.

Aaron Wittenstein00:43

Hey, what’s going on, everybody? It’s me, it’s Aaron Wittenstein, and I would like to welcome you to Vulcan7 Roadmap. This is where we chat with agents across the country to find out how to take an additional one, two, three, four, five, six, just a lot of listings a week. All right? And we have someone here that actually went to school in the same area that I lived in New York, White Plains, okay, for 11 years.

01:07Now he’s in Queens, New York. We got my guy Matthew Wynter. Matthew, how are you doing today, my friend?

Matthew Wynter01:13

I’m doing great. I’m doing great. Thanks for having me. I’m really excited about this.

Aaron Wittenstein01:16

You’re very welcome. Now, just so everybody knows, Matthew last year did just about $10 million in production.

01:22Okay? And what I like about him, he’s got a nice, diverse business. He had business coming from expireds, for sale by owners, circle dialing, I’m assuming database, stuff like that. He’s got a very nice, well-rounded business, and I asked him, I’m like, “Okay, so with what you’re doing, what do you attribute your success to?”

01:47And I wrote it down here ’cause I thought it was a really good word, and I’m gonna put this up on my board here. Unreasonable hospitality. Okay? Unreasonable… I got that right, right?

Matthew Wynter01:58

Yup, you got it.

Aaron Wittenstein01:59

All right, cool. Unreasonable hospitality. So can you kind of expound on that, if you will?

Matthew Wynter02:04

Yeah. Yeah. So what I mean by unreasonable hospitality is that we obviously are in the service business.

02:12I mean, at the end of the day we are salespeople. I know some folks in our industry don’t like to consider themselves salespeople, but at the end of the day I view myself as a consultant and advisor. And ultimately I believe that we are in the service industry. And so we’ve all been to restaurants or had experiences with folks in customer service that have been less than stellar.

02:37But something that has always resounded with me is when you hear people will always forget what you say, people may forget what you do, but they always remember how you made them feel. And so my goal has always been, and part of why I believe that I’ve been as successful as I have in a relatively short amount of time, is because I really put myself in the shoes of whomever I’m interacting with and think about what would great service look like if it were me. I wanna be able to make sure that they can remember me.

03:07They may forget my name, but they’ll remember how I made them feel. And if that means I have to give what’s called unreasonable hospitality, then absolutely, I’ll go above and beyond to be able to make sure that they will remember me, because it may not necessarily be something that we can transact on in the moment, but hopefully down the line that feeling will always be something that they’ll be synonymous with me.

Aaron Wittenstein03:29

Real quick, you said short period of time. How long have you been in business for?

Matthew Wynter03:31

So this is year three for me.

Aaron Wittenstein03:33

Oh, so let me get this straight. Hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I want to get back to the unreasonable hospitality in a second, but almost producing a $10 million business in three years, that is pretty significant.

03:44You know what I mean? I don’t want to glaze over that whatsoever. And it sounds like he’s almost cracked the code with the unreasonable hospitality to be able to… Well, I’m gonna let you… So, all right, so let’s say that you have… I wanna role play something out.

04:01Can we try this?

Matthew Wynter04:02

Let’s do it.

Aaron Wittenstein04:02

Are you ready for this?

Matthew Wynter04:03

And before we do this, though…

Aaron Wittenstein04:04

Yes, go ahead.

Matthew Wynter04:04

We gotta give… I did not create that term. I did not create that concept.

04:08There is a book that’s called Unreasonable Hospitality

04:12by Will Guidara. And basically, it’s actually from the service industry.

04:17He runs one of the hottest restaurants here in New York City. And part of the reason why he attributes the success of his business and his time in the hospitality space is this concept of unreasonable hospitality. And so when I read that book,

04:33obviously we don’t work in the restaurant industry, but when I read that book, I was like, “This makes perfect sense in terms of how to apply it to my business.”

04:41And ever since then, that’s been my mantra.

Aaron Wittenstein04:45

So being in business, especially New York and Queens, all right? I’m assuming that you get some clients that are not what we’d say the easiest clients in the world.

Matthew Wynter04:54

No, no.

Aaron Wittenstein04:55

Okay. So what do you see as being the biggest challenge in regards to dealing with a client who needs what you’re offering with unreasonable hospitality?

05:06Like a scenario, I guess, if you will.

Matthew Wynter05:10

Yeah, absolutely. I would say in New York it’s definitely not for the faint of heart, as you and I both know. You gotta be tough, you gotta be gritty. But believe it or not, I do think what can help set you apart is there’s the expectation of realtors, there’s an expectation of people in business, that there’s a certain type of agent that everyone knows of.

05:31It’s almost like that used car salesman approach. They’re just like sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. And to a degree, there’s a lot of folks in this city who are very successful with that approach. But I believe oversaturation of realtors in our market is partially to blame for that. And so for me, a lot of what I try to do in my interactions is I can stand out and still be the same person in terms of the goal that I wanna help them with, but if my approach comes across as more approachable, I’m able to actually have an understanding with them, and maybe slow down for a second to actually understand their why, I can actually help them through my unreasonable hospitality of being able to show that I can actually help you get from A to Z.

06:13And my approach may be a little bit unique to what you can get from someone else, but I believe that my approach is gonna be a lot more thoughtful, and it’s going to be more tailored to you as an individual, in a city that is very much so somewhat narcissistic, where everyone is all about themselves.

Aaron Wittenstein06:30

Here’s what I’m thinking, and just walk with me on this, okay?

06:34So I would assume, being expired, circle dialing, for sale by owners, you have competition, right? When you’re

06:39doing this. Okay. And you get some of the people on the, either way, whichever way we’re working with here, okay? And you’re coming down to the close.

06:49And I think we have a couple different ways where we could close somebody.

06:51We can do soft close or hard close. All right? Now, with you, I’m gonna venture to guess that you close a little bit differently.

Matthew Wynter06:59

You know what? I would say so. I’m more of a, it’s softer upfront, but then it’s a hard close. Are you familiar with Gary Vaynerchuk?

Aaron Wittenstein07:09

Oh, yeah.

Matthew Wynter07:09

So Gary Vee is the man.

07:11One of my favorite pseudo celebrities that I’ve met, where he was the same person that I met in person as who I thought he was. But Gary Vee has this book called Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook.

07:25And that’s essentially the approach. At the end of the day, hopefully throughout the conversation, whether it’s a five minute or an hour conversation, they’ll be able to get an understanding of who I am, and I’m not a super aggressive person in terms of my conversation.

07:38I wanna be able to make someone feel comfortable with me. However, throughout this pitch, by the time we get to the closing, they should hopefully be disarmed or comfortable enough that by the time I say, “So why are we not working together?” Or, “What’s your reason for…”

Aaron Wittenstein07:54

Well, let’s…

07:55Can we take it from there and role play that out? Would you be game for that?

Matthew Wynter07:59

I would love that.

Aaron Wittenstein07:59

All right, let’s… All right. So let’s just say, let’s give some context here. It’s just me. I’m moving to Orlando, okay? And I’m meeting… I met with one agent and I have one more agent coming.

08:14We have agreement on price, we have agreement on everything else, and just now it’s time to close, maybe.

Matthew Wynter08:19

Yeah. So, Aaron, I understand you’re moving to Orlando. I’m gonna assume because you love either being close to Disney World, or you love to be able to be close to Disney World and in warm proximities, right?

Aaron Wittenstein08:32

100%.

Matthew Wynter08:33

I got it. And so throughout the conversation with myself, as well as, I’m sure, every agent, we all want the same thing. We all wanna be able to help you close on this place. But what would you say is the most important thing that matters to you? Because at the end of the day, you’re gonna move to Orlando no matter what.

08:50Is that right?

Aaron Wittenstein08:50

Yeah. I mean, I want my money.

Matthew Wynter08:52

You want your money. So if I’m hearing you correctly, the most important thing is how much you’re netting.

Aaron Wittenstein08:57

100%. You gimme my money, we can make a deal.

Matthew Wynter09:00

Okay. What if you can get your money in a year? Does it matter if you get it in a year or in six months?

Aaron Wittenstein09:05

I mean, we’re flexible.

09:06You know what I mean? So, I mean, the number’s super important.

Matthew Wynter09:11

Okay. So it’s all about the number, flexible on timing. But if you can get to that number faster, would you be okay with that?

Aaron Wittenstein09:19

Of course, definitely, definitely.

Matthew Wynter09:20

All right. So you want your money and you want it fast, and you wanna be in your location.

09:25Does it matter to you how we go about doing it?

Aaron Wittenstein09:27

No, I don’t care what happens. As I said, I’m a believer in, when I find the right person to do the job for me, just do it, and as long as you keep me updated along the way, I’m okay with that.

Matthew Wynter09:38

All right, so communication matters to you.

09:40You just wanna be informed. You don’t necessarily have to be involved in the nitty gritty of it.

Aaron Wittenstein09:44

Oh, no, I don’t have time for that. I’m a big CEO of a big fancy company.

Matthew Wynter09:50

Yeah. Big fancy company CEO has enough on his plate. He does not need his realtor to be giving him, “I just got a call from this person, and I just wanna update you.”

Aaron Wittenstein10:01

Exactly.

Matthew Wynter10:01

So I’m gonna say this back to you, and correct me if anything is missing. So you wanna move to Orlando as soon as possible, but it doesn’t have to be tomorrow, but you wanna be able to net as much as possible, and you just wanna be able to make sure that you are informed along the way.

Aaron Wittenstein10:16

Correct.

Matthew Wynter10:17

All right, great. So throughout the conversation, I’ve learned a lot more about you, I’ve learned about your family, your motivation, and, dare I say, I think I understand a little bit more about what may make you happy at the end of this. So if I’m able to demonstrate to you through our conversation how I would be able to get you to that best and final number that’s the highest possible out there, and in doing so, I take on all of the burden, I take on all of the marketing expenses, I have all the conversations with the intent in mind to get you the most money.

10:51If I can do that, there should be no reason why we don’t work together. Is that right?

Aaron Wittenstein10:55

Yeah. But I think at this point I’m meeting with another agent, like I told you, tomorrow at around noon, and then I’m gonna make my full decision by then.

Matthew Wynter11:05

Okay. So you’re gonna have the conversation with me today.

11:08You’re gonna meet with this other agent tomorrow at noon. And by the way, that’s a smart play. I mean, you should absolutely have as many conversations as you can to be able to make sure you get what you need, because this is an important decision. You’re moving your family to Orlando.

11:22But is there something that I haven’t said to you that you’re hoping or waiting for this other agent to potentially say, or is it just to be able to have a point of reference?

Aaron Wittenstein11:31

No. I mean, everything you said sounds great.

Matthew Wynter11:33

Okay. All right. So you have this conversation. Let’s just role play a little bit on this.

11:38You have this conversation with this agent tomorrow. Are you basically just trying to compare to me and say, “All right, Matt said he’s going to do X, Y, and Z. Can you do that also?”

Aaron Wittenstein11:50

Yeah, I mean, it’s just we wanna just make sure that we’re making the right decision.

Matthew Wynter11:55

Okay. I understand that. Like I said, it is a big decision, and so you come out of this conversation with this agent, who I’m sure is also a great agent as well, but we say all the same things.

12:08What’s gonna be that big difference maker for you, if we’re both gonna be getting you the most money, we’re gonna be doing it as soon as possible, and we’re gonna keep you out of the weeds?

Aaron Wittenstein12:16

I mean, the person that I like the best.

Matthew Wynter12:18

The person that you like the best. So personality fit, as well as just comfortability, is the most important thing.

Aaron Wittenstein12:23

100%.

Matthew Wynter12:24

Okay. I understand. So that’s kind of that differentiating factor, that if all the cards were all the same, we would assume that that would be the difference maker.

Aaron Wittenstein12:32

Yes.

Matthew Wynter12:33

Okay. I understand that. So let me just ask you this one final question, then. Seems like we’ve gotten along great.

12:41I think that not only would you be somebody that would be great to work with, I think we would have a great dynamic, but I also am very confident that I would be able to get you the most money. What would stop you from just agreeing to work with me now versus actually having this conversation tomorrow?

Aaron Wittenstein12:59

We made a commitment to meet with that other agent.

Matthew Wynter13:02

I understand. I understand. And commitments, and saying what you’re gonna do and doing what you say, are super important in this business. So I totally understand that and I respect that. The one thing that I would just ask is that going into that conversation, just keep me in mind, and if there’s anything that you hear that you’re like, “You know what?

13:21I never asked Matt this,” or, “I never heard this,” you give me a call right after that and then we just have a conversation. Does that work?

Aaron Wittenstein13:29

Sure.

Matthew Wynter13:30

All right. I appreciate that. And look, this has been great. I would love to work with you, but at the end of the day, I wanna be able to make sure that this is the best fit for you and your family.

13:40And so I am confident that I would be able to do that for you, but I’d love nothing more than to hear from you tomorrow, and hopefully hear some good news that we’re gonna be working together.

Aaron Wittenstein13:50

That sounds fair. I’ll let you know.

Matthew Wynter13:53

All right. Sounds good. Thank you, Aaron.

Aaron Wittenstein13:54

So what I love about what you did is you just asked a lot of questions and you kept repeating my motivation,

14:03if you will. I think you repeated it, like, 73 times. But no, you were very smooth with what you said, and it sounds like you said it a billion… To me at least, it sounded like you said it a billion times. That was very, very nice, and I think it was very tastefully…

14:20It was very tastefully done. Okay. And I think a lot of us go in there, like you said, with the hard sell.

14:28You know what I mean?

14:28With that hard sell, and yeah, you were very tasteful is the best way to put it.

Matthew Wynter14:34

I appreciate that. I appreciate that, because look, at the end of the day, we all know that there’s gonna be competition.

14:39You gave me the courtesy of letting me know that you’re gonna be meeting with one person tomorrow, maybe even the time. And sometimes we don’t usually get that. It’s, I’m gonna explore my options. And so what I just want to be able to make sure by reiterating it as much as possible is that at the end of the day, what you’re looking for are these three to four things that you said.

14:58And so whether you’re having this conversation with me or someone else, these are the four things that you said matter to you, so it’s almost like this is the receiver that you’re gonna be listening for when you have that conversation with them.

Aaron Wittenstein15:12

That’s great. No, that’s great. And I mean, to be doing this for three years and to be able to pick up the nuances like that, and to be able to communicate with someone like that, it’s just high level stuff.

15:23You know what I mean? So I hope everybody listens to what he had to say, because we all know the reality of it is we don’t close 100% of the appointments that we go on.

Matthew Wynter15:33

It’s a fact.

Aaron Wittenstein15:34

Right? We just don’t… I mean, even the greatest agents in the world are not converting on… I don’t know, at least for me, it’s 50% of the listings that I’ll get now.

15:4650% of the listings I’ll take. And I’m okay with that,

15:50because I think what it came down to, if you would’ve pushed any further on that conversation, you would’ve pushed me away. And that’s not what we want, that’s not what we want. So when it comes to client customer service, I’m assuming that you’re pretty good at that as well.

Matthew Wynter16:08

That’s what I would like to say is probably the best part about working with me, is that, I’m not sure if you ever heard of the RACI model, R-A-C-I. But basically it’s responsible, accountable, consulted and informed. And so prior to me ever being in real estate, I worked in corporate America.

16:25I worked in marketing, actually. And so a lot of what I would be able to do on a day-to-day basis with the teams that I was managing is we had this RACI model. And so with my clients, it’s always the C and I. Obviously I’m the one that’s accountable, and I’m the one that’s responsible for everything regarding their transaction, but what are the things that they just need to be informed about, and what are the things that I have to consult them on?

16:46And so I always want them to feel like we are partners. I use the word partners with my clients a lot, ’cause I want them to feel that we are in this together. This is not a relationship where it’s, I’m telling you to do this and you’re telling me to do this. Because at the end of the day, we’re building this relationship beyond this one transaction.

17:02And by me consulting you and saying, “Hey, I’m thinking about making this shift. I just wanna get your thoughts and just make sure that you’re okay with it,” they feel, even though I’m the expert on the transaction, they feel that they’re a part of it. And so when we get to the finish line, nothing matters more to me than them being able to say they enjoyed the process of working with me and selling or buying their home, because that is what they’re ultimately gonna refer their friends and family to.

Aaron Wittenstein17:30

And I would assume now, being in it for about three years,

17:34you’re starting to get that residual effect of the referrals coming in. Am I right?

Matthew Wynter17:39

Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, this is year three for me. Year two was when things really started to kind of get that hockey stick growth that we’re looking for.

17:48But so far, we’re only a few months into the year, but now I’m starting to get more of those folks that I’ve worked with in the past who are like, “Hey, I have this friend that’s either looking to buy,” or, “I have someone who may be looking to sell, and hands down, I sent them your information.

18:06So if you get a hit up, that’s from me.” And it’s started to happen a few times already this year.

Aaron Wittenstein18:11

See, that’s what happens when you put the hospitality involved with the prospecting and all that. Eventually it should grow into something else.

18:20So out of prospecting, ’cause you have gotten a fair share of yours, it started there, I would assume. What do you enjoy the most? Expireds, for sale by owner, circle dialing? What’s your favorite cup of coffee?

Matthew Wynter18:33

Yeah. It’s a funny question, because the thing that I enjoy the most is not necessarily the thing that I’ve had the most success with in terms of

18:41conversion. Believe it or not, and I’m sure if you polled everyone that you’ve ever spoken to, FSBOs are probably everyone’s least favorite. It’s just a different… I call it getting punched in the face in the morning. If I’ve had a good morning of calls, I gotta get punched in the face by a FSBO in order to really wake me up.

19:01But I’ve actually had, from a conversion standpoint, more success with FSBOs than I’ve had with anything. But I enjoy circle prospecting a lot more, because a lot of my script, I don’t necessarily use a script word for word, but in terms of the conversation, because they’re not folks who have been getting hit over the head by a ton of agents because they have an expired listing or they’re on the market as a FSBO. They tend to be a little bit, at least in New York, a little bit more skeptical, but a little bit more open to hearing what I have to say.

19:37And in those conversations, I’m able to understand a little bit more about their future motivations, learn a little bit more about who they are, what’s going on in their life, and build those pipeline relationships. To quote Brandon Moran, get those pipeline relationships from circle prospecting that ultimately can down the line turn into business, or could be a referral down the line.

Aaron Wittenstein19:59

No, that’s great.

20:00And I mean, it doesn’t matter which way you built, right? ‘Cause I mean, there’s so many different ways to build your business. And it’s just building and then eventually getting to the point of where you are right now, where the business now comes to you. So maybe 50% of what you’re doing is outgoing and 50% is incoming.

20:16And that’s when you know that you have a healthy, strong business, right?

Matthew Wynter20:20

Absolutely.

Aaron Wittenstein20:21

All right, so let me ask you this. A brand new agent. Brand new agent, fresh out of classes, all right. He’s been licensed for all of 12 hours. He’s like, Matthew Wynter, guy in Queens, I hear he’s amazing.

20:31He comes, he knocks on your door, knock, knock, knock, knock, knock. And he’s like, “Matthew.” What is one piece of advice that you would give me as a brand new agent that would help my business?

Matthew Wynter20:41

To be human. Be a human and approach all your conversations through an empathetic lens, and have it be about them.

20:52And what I mean by that is I did door knocking, and I still do some door knocking. I mean, it’s cold in New York. And as opposed to other markets, where it’s a lot more residential and suburban, in New York City it is very hard to door knock. And shout out to the Jehovah’s Witnesses out there, because they’re very good at what they do.

21:12But door knocking in New York, everyone treats you like a Jehovah’s Witness. They are very cagey and they don’t want you at their door. But the number one thing that I would tell someone who’s starting out is don’t be that person who’s knocking on the door with a purpose that is personal to you.

21:30You’re knocking on the door to provide a service, that you just wanna get the opportunity to explain to them how it can help them down the line. If you put yourself second or even third, and everything about your conversation is putting them first, people are going to be less cagey with you and be more willing to continue a conversation.

21:51And the longer the conversation can go on, whether it’s the first, second, third, fourth, that ultimately is going to increase your chances of being successful with that person.

Aaron Wittenstein22:00

Beautiful. Beautiful. All right, so let’s wrap this up in a nice little bow here, okay?

22:04What are your final words for Vulcan7 Nation?

Matthew Wynter22:08

Oh man, Vulcan7 Nation.

22:09If you’re in Vulcan7 Nation, you’re already doing something right, because that means that you are making a commitment. You’re putting a flag in the ground saying that you believe in outbound prospecting, and I think that is already you being on the forefront of taking your business and your career to the next level.

22:28Vulcan has been incredibly great to me. I’ve used other platforms when I was starting out, and it’s been the one that I’ve been most consistent with and have seen the most results from. I believe that everyone in Vulcan Nation, if you follow, whether it’s Brandon Moran or any of the other coaches that are out there who are giving advice on how to prospect, and you use Vulcan to do so, there’s almost no way that you’re not gonna be successful, because it’s almost formulaic that if you are putting in the effort, it’s just a matter of time.

23:01I’m not saying it’s gonna happen tomorrow, may not happen next week. But if you continue to chip away at that tree and chop wood every day, ultimately that tree’s gonna fall down and you’re gonna be successful.

Aaron Wittenstein23:12

Beautiful. That was beautifully said, my friend.

Matthew Wynter23:14

Thank you. Thank you.

Aaron Wittenstein23:15

You’re welcome.

23:16All right. So do you only cover Queens, or do you cover other areas as well?

Matthew Wynter23:20

Oh, no, I cover all of New York, really. I’ve sold houses all the way up by Poughkeepsie. I’ve sold houses out in Long Island. But the majority of my business is in the five boroughs in New York City.

Aaron Wittenstein23:33

Got it. So let’s say someone is moving from, ironically, Orlando, Florida, okay,

23:36to Queens. How does one get in touch with you, my friend?

Matthew Wynter23:40

Oh, absolutely. So my Instagram is @milliondollarwynter. Wynter with a Y, obviously, like my last name. But I’m always a DM away.

23:51Or they can reach out to me via email, mwynter@bhsusa.com. Would love to just have a conversation and learn a little bit more about why Queens is probably the best place for you to pick to move to now in New York City. That’s a hot take for all my other NYC agents, but I really believe that.

24:11And New York City is a great place to be, so if they’re considering, I would love to help them figure it out.

Aaron Wittenstein24:17

Beautiful. All right, my friend. This was great. Thank you so much for being here.

Matthew Wynter24:20

Thank you so much, Aaron.

Aaron Wittenstein24:22

You’re very welcome. And I want everybody to do me a favor. Don’t forget to what?

24:24Go make some money, and don’t forget to, boom, trust the process. Y’all take care of yourself and be well.