How Mike Smutz went from part-time cold calling to a 50-deal pace in 3 years

Aaron Wittenstein00:00

Okay, so for you being in the business for four years now, and you have a brand new agent that comes by your desk and says, “Mike, I’m lost. What do I do?” What would you tell me?

Mike Smutz00:17

A new agent came, I’d say my advice would be just to start calling. Sign up for Vulcan7. I’ve been with Vulcan7 since shortly after getting my license, and I never plan on leaving because the data is just so good, right?

00:34Sign up for Vulcan7, start making your calls. The action is the only thing that matters. Vulcan7 leverages your time so you don’t have to spend time looking for the phone numbers. I always tell people when people complain, “I don’t have enough listings, I don’t have enough business,” and I’ll catch myself saying that, my answer’s always the same: “Call more.

00:52If you’re broke, call more. Make more calls.” That’s the only cure in my opinion.

Aaron Wittenstein01:01

What’s going on, everybody? It’s me, it’s Aaron Wittenstein. We are here with Vulcan 7 Roadmap. We talk to agents across the country, especially my new buddy over here, Mike Smutz, outside of… where are you outside of again, Philly? Pennsylvania, right?

Mike Smutz01:28

Yeah, the northeast Pennsylvania. It’s called the Lehigh Valley.

01:32It’s like two hours north of Philly. It’s an hour and a half outside of New York City.

Aaron Wittenstein01:38

And the goal here is to teach agents how to take two, three, four, 10,000,366 listings a week. Okay? So Mike and I were chatting a little bit beforehand, and he’s got a good story.

01:53Would you mind sharing the story with everybody here?

Mike Smutz01:58

For me, I got into real estate… I’m 27 now, so I got in real estate just over three years ago. So I was young when I started, and a lot of my friends weren’t ready to buy and sell houses because they were also 21, 22 when I started.

02:15So I needed a quick way to get business, and I immediately went to cold calling. Now, I tried a bunch of systems, eventually led to Vulcan7, and I’ve stuck with Vulcan7 since then. In that first year I discovered it, I haven’t left. And that has skyrocketed my business. And I was still working a full-time job at the beginning.

02:42For the first eight months I was doing this part-time. But in that first year I did like 25 deals. Second year I did somewhere in the mid-30s, and now I’m on track to do 50-something this year.

Aaron Wittenstein02:55

So, all right, so let me ask you a question, ’cause I think this is interesting. Because you were part-time.

03:00You did a good amount of transactions for being a part-time realtor, okay? So what do you think… ‘Cause I mean, working, was it a full-time gig, or were you on part-time, or what did that look like?

Mike Smutz03:11

It was a full-time gig. I fell in real estate by mistake, right? And I love it. The happiest mistake of my life.

03:21I got my license just to get into real estate investing, actually. I thought I wanted to be an investor, so I got my license thinking I was going to do that. I had another job. It paid me all right. Not super well, but I was a manager at a big grocery chain. So I was doing management work there.

03:46And I got my license and I started selling just as a side hustle thing, and I found out I loved it, so I just kept going. Especially part-time, I remember being discouraged because I’d work 40 hours a week and then trying to find time. I would go on my lunch break into my car, pull up Vulcan7 on my phone and dial for my hour lunch break, and then go back into work.

04:12So eventually I had so much in the pipeline, I was like, “I’m making more doing real estate than I am on my salary.” Like, “I quit. Bye.”

Aaron Wittenstein04:22

There’s so many people that don’t know how to break in, you know what I mean, to this full time. They have full-time jobs. And I just love the fact that you’re so committed to this business.

04:33I mean, was it just blind faith, or was it just like you really enjoyed it?

Mike Smutz04:38

A little bit of both. So when I discovered calling, and it’s mostly for sale by owners and expireds, as Vulcan really helps you do. I discovered calling and it’s weird. When somebody first starts calling, there’s that phone reluctance and people hate it.

04:57And I was afraid, too. I had the call reluctance and everything. But once you get going and things start rolling, you almost get addicted to it. It’s weird. I love cold calling now. If I had the choice between that and sleeping in, sure, I would probably take sleeping in.

05:20But I love cold calling because… I don’t know, I’ve just always been competitive. So yeah, I’ve always had side hustles all my life, so I wanted another way of making business and I said, “Well, I have my real estate license. Why don’t I just try to sell…” And I was expecting I’ll sell five, six houses a year and just put that money aside for business.

05:43And after I started doing it, it was like, “I like this. Why the hell am I still working at this job? I wanna work for myself. Adios, guys.”

Aaron Wittenstein05:51

No, that’s great. Like I said, it’s great because there’s a lot of agents that are maybe watching this that have a full-time job. And they don’t wanna back away.

06:00And I just think that’s impressive, knowing that, I’m gonna venture to guess you had 12, 13-hour days that you were putting in, because you wanted to do this. And people ask, “How do I get out of my full-time job?” It’s 12 to 13 hours, you know what I mean? I found that interesting. And one thing I know you talked about there, I’m gonna venture to guess you’ve passed by your call reluctance phase in real estate, correct?

Mike Smutz06:26

Yeah. I won’t lie, I definitely have the mornings where I don’t wanna do it, but I think everybody does. But I’m definitely past the call reluctance phase where I’m afraid of people yelling at me, if that’s what you mean.

Aaron Wittenstein06:40

So let me ask you this, ’cause this is where I’ve always thought.

06:43I don’t think call reluctance is a thing. Maybe I’m totally wrong, okay?

06:46I think it’s a skill set problem. Because I’m a firm believer if you know what to say, when to say, how to say it, what context to say it in, there’s no issue.

Mike Smutz06:54

I agree. I think it’s a mindset problem. Because if the skill set’s part of it, the lack of the skill set holds you back and it breaks your mindset because you’re thinking, “What if they say this?

07:08What will I say?” Which is part of the skill set problem you’re talking about. A lot of it’s that. I’ve grown as a person in that mindset, and I’ve learned: what’s gonna happen? What’s the worst case scenario? Eh, somebody gets mad at me. I hang up, I move on to the next call.

07:28You know what I mean? That mindset shift has really helped me, and I think that’s the biggest hurdle. That was definitely my hurdle.

Aaron Wittenstein07:36

So, all right. Well, how many hours a day you calling right now?

Mike Smutz07:42

Right now I dial mostly from 8:00 AM till noon, so about four hours a day.

Aaron Wittenstein07:51

Everybody has different expectations of what a call session should look like. It’s either contacts, it’s appointments, whatever that is. What’s your main expectation when you sit down for a calling session?

Mike Smutz08:05

My main expectation is it depends on where I’m at with my business and where I’m heading with my goals.

08:11So I’m a firm believer, especially in a business like this that’s self-directed, you have to have good goals and you have to know why you’re doing it. If you’re just calling and you don’t have any goals, if you sit down at a call session and just go, “I’m just gonna call,” you’re gonna wander off. You’re not gonna get as much done.

08:30But if you know exactly what your goal is, and I go as far as I break it down for the year: this is what I’m gonna do. You break that year down into quarters, you break that quarter down into months, the months into weeks, the weeks into days. You should know all your numbers. Because when I eventually leveled up and paid for a real estate coach, he taught me to track those and use those conversion percentages to figure it out.

08:56So a day for me… It depends. I have two minimums, and I have to match one of them before I’m allowed to get up out of my desk. There’s been days where I’ve gone back to dialing because I didn’t hit those minimums. Say I go on a listing appointment, I come back to my house and I’m like, “All right, well, I gotta start dialing again,” because I didn’t hit those minimums.

09:21I have two minimums, right? One’s a contact goal. It used to be 30. In the last couple of months, I just ramped it up to 40. I know I need more contacts to get more appointments. So I either have to hit 40 contacts or set one appointment. So those are my two goals.

09:41And my goal is to set an appointment a day, Monday through Friday. And then take one listing a week.

Aaron Wittenstein09:47

Okay. So the goal is, let me just make sure I got that, it’s 40 contacts, or you talk to one person, you get one contact, so be it. Of course, then you know we’re not gonna stop. And with setting…

09:58And how many appointments right now are you setting on average a week?

Mike Smutz10:01

Between four to six,

10:04give or take. It averages. Some days I’ll hop on the phone and I’ll set three. Some days I’ll hop on the phone and get none. But I try to regulate it to about one a day. I wanna set one valid appointment every single call session.

Aaron Wittenstein10:20

So let’s say when you set five appointments, what does that look like? How many cancel, how many disqualify, how many take in, how many do you not get? What does that look like?

Mike Smutz10:28

Yeah. So, I mean, everybody runs their business a little bit different.

10:32So I’ll set five appointments and three of those will come to fruition.

10:38So two out of every five cancel, and then out of those three, only two of those are a good listing appointment situation, if that makes sense. There’s a lack of motivation or something like that, something I failed to uncover over the phone that could have prevented me time from going there. Which for me, I’ve always made the decision of I’d rather set the appointments in quick, rapid succession,

11:03boom, boom, boom, than waste an extra 30 minutes every time on the phone: “Hey, I just set the appointment with you. Before you hang up, can I ask you a couple questions?” I’ve never liked that script. So I always just set them. I’ll call them the morning of our appointment, and that’s when I’ll do the prequalification.

11:23And sometimes I go, “Hey, I’m sorry, it doesn’t seem like it’s a good time for us to meet,” or they say it and then we end it there. But yeah, out of those five, there’s generally two good listing opportunities there. Because two of them will cancel and one of them won’t have good motivation.

11:47So out of those two I generally take about one. I definitely will take at least one of them, sometimes both of them, if that makes sense. It’s about a 68% conversion rate is what I’m at right now.

12:03You know what that’s called? I like to call that prospecting-induced karma. The more you call, the luckier you get, right?

Aaron Wittenstein12:12

100%. That’s with anything in this business. The harder you work, the luckier you get. I love that. You know exactly how many contacts you need to make per hour to get the amount of goals. And like you said, that’s impressive, because there’s so many people that just go blind into this stuff.

12:26And they’re like, “What do you need?” “I need, uh, who knows,” you know? So have you always been the numbers person, or have you kinda transitioned more to numbers person being in this business?

Mike Smutz12:37

I’m a high D. You know about the DISC assessment?

Aaron Wittenstein12:44

100%, yeah.

Mike Smutz12:44

Another book I read that’s right over there on the shelf, one of those yellow ones, is Rocket Fuel. They talk about the visionary versus the… is it the implementer?

Aaron Wittenstein12:56

It’s been a long time, man.

Mike Smutz12:58

It’s been a long time since I read it too. But I’m definitely the visionary type and the high D, high I, so I’m good at going and doing, but I’ve always been bad at planning.

13:07So I was one of those agents that just hopped on the phone, didn’t plan. I learned to love my numbers through sheer force of a handful… I can’t name just one, because there’s been a handful of mentors and coaches that have beat that over my head, from office staff, who were the first people to tell me at my office, to a coach I pay for and still work for, Chadi Bazzy.

13:34So through getting it beat up into me, I do it now and I’m still really bad at it. But I do know them, so it helps me. I just do tally marks on a thing. There will be days, or weeks, where these will be sitting in a pile over in the corner of my desk and I haven’t input them into my spreadsheet.

14:02And then I’ll get yelled at. That’s accountability for you.

Aaron Wittenstein14:07

So when it comes to scripting, like I said, I don’t wanna get into a whole script right now on this thing. But what’s your intro and your hook? What does that sound like, your first line,

14:18when you’re speaking to somebody?

Mike Smutz14:20

It really depends. I hate that answer, right? But it really depends on the tone of their voice. So normally if somebody answers… And are we talking about for sale by owners or expireds here?

Aaron Wittenstein14:32

I’m an expired guy, so let’s roll

14:36some expireds.

Mike Smutz14:36

So normally with expireds, I like to just say their first name so I can hear how they come out. Because when you call them, they’re always gonna say hello, and you can tell just off that hello if you’re listening. And this is where, when you talk about skill set, learning what to say, it does help you mentally, because I’m not thinking about what I’m going to say.

15:00I’m able to pay close attention to what the client, or prospect, is saying, right? So how they say hello makes a huge difference. If somebody answers the phone, say it’s not 8:00 AM and I am one of 10 agents that’s called them this morning, and they answer in a “Hello,” like angry, I’m gonna come off a little bit different than if somebody answers the phone and they’re warm and bubbly, like, “Hello?”

15:27So normally they answer… let’s say it’s somebody who’s warm and bubbly, I’m just gonna go, “Hey, first name.” So in this sentence then, do you want me to just role play or do you want me to just answer?

Aaron Wittenstein15:42

I’ll be warm and bubbly.

Mike Smutz15:44

Okay. Ring ring.

Aaron Wittenstein15:45

Hello.

Mike Smutz15:46

Aaron?

Aaron Wittenstein15:46

Yeah.

Mike Smutz15:47

Hey, Aaron. How you doing? Before you hang up, my name is Mike Smutz. I’m a local real estate agent. I was just hoping to ask you a quick question about 123 Main Street. Is that okay?

Aaron Wittenstein16:00

Sure. What do you got?

Mike Smutz16:01

Awesome. I was just curious ’cause I saw that property come off the market. Have you sold that privately or do you still have that?

Aaron Wittenstein16:09

We still have it and we’re not putting it back up for sale.

Mike Smutz16:13

Got it. That makes sense, with everything going on. This looks like a beautiful property. I have the pictures pulled up here. What in the world happened? I’m shocked this didn’t sell.

Aaron Wittenstein16:23

Well, we had an issue with my uncle. And he did fine.

16:27It just didn’t sell, and we probably will put it back up with him if we decide to do it in, like, three or six months or something like that.

Mike Smutz16:37

Got it. Got it. That makes sense. Aaron, I’m just curious, had it sold, where were you planning to go?

Aaron Wittenstein16:43

We were actually moving to somewhere in California that I can’t think of.

16:49Sacramento, California.

Mike Smutz16:49

Okay. What’s taking you to Sacramento, out of curiosity? It’s a beautiful area.

Aaron Wittenstein16:54

We just love the Sacramento Kings. We’re big fans. We travel and follow them around the country.

Mike Smutz17:00

Oh, got it. Got it. And I’m not sure if this makes sense for you yet, because you mentioned maybe one day in the future, but if you got an offer that made sense for you now, would that pose a problem?

Aaron Wittenstein17:10

Yeah, you can contact my uncle Larry, and if you have an offer, give Larry a call.

Mike Smutz17:17

Yeah. That makes sense. I could definitely do that. And let me ask, I mean, you said that Larry did a good job. I don’t know what Larry did or didn’t do, but I actually specialize in homes that didn’t sell the first time around.

17:31Are you open to a second opinion? I mean, I know you don’t know me from Adam down the street, and I haven’t met you or seen your house, but are you open to letting me take a look and showing you a second opinion?

Aaron Wittenstein17:44

I mean, like I said, we’re gonna hang out for a little bit on the house. But like I said, give me a call back in two and a half months.

Mike Smutz17:53

Two and a half months. Awesome, Aaron. I’ll put that on my calendar. Let me ask, Aaron, and again, this might not be the case, but if I could get your house sold in 30 days or less, and more importantly, net you the kind of money that you’re looking for, would that pose a problem for you now?

Aaron Wittenstein18:09

How would you do that?

Mike Smutz18:11

I think that’s exactly why we should meet.

Aaron Wittenstein18:13

Oh, perfect. All right.

Mike Smutz18:15

I got today at 3:00 and tomorrow at 4:00 available to show you that.

Aaron Wittenstein18:20

Yes. You better have said that, otherwise I would’ve been like, “No more.” That was perfect. That was absolutely perfect. That was good.

Mike Smutz18:27

Oh, thank you.

Aaron Wittenstein18:27

Okay. So for you being in the business for four years now, and you have a brand-new agent that comes by your desk and says, “Mike, I’m lost. What do I do?” What would you tell me?

Mike Smutz18:43

A new agent came, I’d say my advice would be just to start calling. It’s scary. Sign up for Vulcan7. I’ve been with Vulcan7 since shortly after getting my license, and I never plan on leaving because the data is just so good, right?

19:03I know there are not a lot of people who call for sale by owners, expireds, which is crazy to me, right? So I don’t know how other people get business nearly as consistently as calling for sale by owners, expireds. I’ve never explored it. I never plan to. I plan to stay right here. My advice would be sign up for Vulcan7, start making your calls.

19:25Whether you’re full-time and you can devote more time to it, which is awesome, or you’re part-time and you have to find time where you can. As I said… and I love my wife for it. There was days where I’d call on my lunch break, I’d come home at 5:00 PM, I’d quickly eat dinner, and then start calling. So my wife didn’t see me for, like, months.

19:48Well, she’d see me, but we wouldn’t spend time for, like, months, because she knew what I was trying to do. So it’s sacrifice, if that makes sense.

Aaron Wittenstein19:56

It might.

Mike Smutz19:57

The action is the only thing that matters. What Vulcan7 does is it leverages your time so you don’t have to spend time looking for the phone number, spend time hand-dialing it, because of the dialer.

20:10And distill it down: get Vulcan7. But I always tell people when people complain, especially other people I know that call for sale by owners and expireds, they’re like, “I don’t have enough listings. I don’t have enough business.” And I’ll catch myself saying that. My answer’s always the same.

20:30Call more. If you’re broke, call more. Make more calls. That’s the only cure in my opinion.

Aaron Wittenstein20:35

You know what I love that you said? The action is all that matters.

Mike Smutz20:40

It is.

Aaron Wittenstein20:41

I think if I take nothing out of this conversation, I appreciate you saying that, because that’s something that I need to hear today.

20:48The action is all that matters. All right, my friend. Any final words before we let you go to make some more phone calls?

Mike Smutz20:57

That’s pretty much it. Believe in yourself. Have a good why, what you’re working towards, your goal. And the action’s all that matters. Don’t get shiny object syndrome and start looking at a bunch of tools.

21:08Just sign up for Vulcan7, it’s all you need, and just take action.

Aaron Wittenstein21:12

All right, guys and girls. Once again, thank you for checking out Vulcan 7 Roadmap. My guy, Mike, over here, I really appreciate you coming on. And everybody do me a favor, have an amazing day.