Katie Engler on why she will not leave a voicemail on the first call

Ren Jones00:04

It’s at time. Welcome to Roadmap. How to take three listings a week until you’re ready for more. Each week we interview a great agent who’s consistently taking two, three and sometimes four listings a week. And we have an exciting guest today. We encourage you to take notes and apply as much of the knowledge as quickly as you can, and then use the copycat principle. Let me introduce my co-host from San Diego. That’s Carley Hathaway. Carleyhathaway.com to be specific. Hi Carley, how’s the real estate business?

Carley Hathaway00:41

Hi Ren. Hi everybody. Real estate is great. I am so happy that I am focusing on being a listing agent and not working with those buyers.

Ren Jones00:50

Good. You keep it up. I’m excited for all your successes. Go take a few more. Before I introduce our guest today, I want to remind everybody that we are also simulcasting the show on the private Lead Gen group on Facebook. Lead Gen has 52,000 members, so we have a large audience there today as well. And we’ll be pausing for a commercial message during the show. As a thank you to the Lead Gen folks. Let’s welcome our guest today from beautiful Myrtle Beach, Ms. Katie Engler.

Carley Hathaway01:25

Hi Katie.

Ren Jones01:25

Hi Katie.

Katie Engler01:27

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Ren Jones01:29

Glad you’re here.

Carley Hathaway01:30

Yeah, we’re excited. We’re excited for this one.

Katie Engler01:33

Me too.

Ren Jones01:34

Good. Wonderful. Wonderful. So Carley Ann.

Carley Hathaway01:39

So Katie, how long have you been in real estate? Let’s start out with that.

Katie Engler01:43

I am new to real estate. I’m going into my second year.

Carley Hathaway01:46

Oh wow. Okay.

Katie Engler01:48

Yes.

Carley Hathaway01:49

All right, good for you. And how’s it going so far?

Katie Engler01:52

It’s going a lot better now that I’ve found the right source of my data. I can tell you that.

Carley Hathaway01:58

Oh yeah. Okay. So you’re using Vulcan7, I’m assuming.

Katie Engler02:03

I am.

Carley Hathaway02:03

Katie. So I’m so glad you’re with Vulcan7, I am two. Great lead gen company. So let’s talk about before you were with Vulcan7, what were you doing to get a bunch of listings?

Katie Engler02:16

Well, I really wasn’t focusing on listings in the very beginning. I was trying to just have more instant gratification of buyer clients bringing in any type of revenue that I could. As a newer agent, it’s like people don’t really tell you how to navigate that the right way.

Carley Hathaway02:33

Totally agree. Yeah.

Katie Engler02:35

So it’s a lot of trial and error. So I tried the whole online lead generation, Facebook advertising, Zillow, the whole nine yards, and it was very expensive for a very long turnaround time and not much return off of that. So my husband and I work together as a team and we just put our heads together and we’re like, “How can we change this where we’re not forking out way more money than what’s justifiable to come back in?” And that’s when we came across Vulcan.

Carley Hathaway03:05

How long have you been with Vulcan now?

Katie Engler03:08

Going on about two to three months.

Carley Hathaway03:11

And how’s it going for you so far?

Katie Engler03:13

Amazing. Taking about two to three listings a week, so we’re thrilled.

Carley Hathaway03:17

That’s huge. Good for you.

Katie Engler03:17

Thank you.

Carley Hathaway03:23

So you said you’re mostly calling expireds?

Katie Engler03:27

Mostly expireds, withdrawns and now getting into for sale by owner.

Carley Hathaway03:32

Awesome. Good. And so you and your husband are a team. Can you walk us through your daily schedule?

Katie Engler03:40

Sure. We like to keep it as consistent as we can just because we’ve found success with what we’re doing so far. And the key is consistency. So we wake up at about 6:00, 6:30, we go through all of the data and organize who are we wanting to speak with, why are we wanting to speak with them, and we need a little bit of knowledge about their property before we call. And once we do that, we run through the list. Whoever didn’t answer earlier that morning, we’re trying them again in the afternoon. And depending on the day, we might have prospecting in there that’s other than making calls. If not, then we’re just basically focusing on getting appointments out of those phone conversations.

Carley Hathaway04:25

Awesome. Good for you. I haven’t heard that that you wake up early and go through the new leads and organize and do research. I haven’t heard that, but I think that’s a really great idea because sometimes I’ll just jump on the phones clueless, and I’m like, “Who am I calling? What’s happening?” So I think that’s a really good useful tip for sure.

Katie Engler04:45

Thank you.

Carley Hathaway04:45

Yeah. And let me ask you this, do you leave voicemails?

Katie Engler04:50

No. The reason why I say no is just because I feel like we all sound the same. And they know that if all of us are calling in the morning, even if you are vague saying, “Hey, I’m calling about the property, please give me a call back.” They know you’re a real estate agent. So I mean you’ve given it away already. I would rather try them again before I chose to do that. Now if I can’t get them the second or third time, then there’s likely less harm in leaving one, but I won’t leave one after the first time.

Carley Hathaway05:22

Okay, that’s great. And let me ask you this. So you have a new expired, you call them in the morning, they don’t answer, you call them the afternoon, they don’t answer. What’s your continued calling schedule to get them? When do you let them go? When do you keep going?

Katie Engler05:36

I wouldn’t, I would try to go to them if I can see that they’re here. If the owner address is matching, I guess the property that has expired, then that’s going to be a very different follow up than if it’s not, if it’s a vacant property, then I can’t get to them so I need to call. I would say email follow up after. And if I’m still not getting anywhere, then I would try to door knock it.

Carley Hathaway06:03

Awesome. Good for you. I like how proactive,

Ren Jones06:06

I love this, two years in the business. She’s taking two or three listings a week. That’s just phenomenal. It’s exciting. And really, I guess it’s just a matter of being focused and getting in there and just doing it every day consistently.

Katie Engler06:25

The consistency really is a huge part of it. And I think honestly, another huge part is not sounding so I say the same exact thing to everyone, every call that I do, I think a lot of people get so shocked by a script that they don’t sound relatable and then they just get hung up on.

Ren Jones06:46

Yeah. What is it? It’s not the script, it’s the poor use of a script. If you sound can’t, if you sound rigid, if you don’t sound conversational, then it’s offensive. It just is.

Katie Engler06:58

Sure. It needs to be internalized.

Ren Jones07:01

Because I’m sure you’re saying some similar things, but it probably sounds a little more relaxed, a little more human, maybe it’s got some energy in it.

Katie Engler07:10

Yeah. I’ve found that the more that you just speak with these people, they’re regular people. It could be like your mom or my mom that is going through something that they need your help and just talk to them.

Ren Jones07:23

Yeah. Well, it’s exciting that you’re having such a great batting average right out of the gate. What’s your goal for this year?

Katie Engler07:34

I like to think of my goal as being more of a transaction count than a dollar figure. Especially right now, because this is such newly found success for us, I would like to be able to take between 10 to 12 listings a month. And then that would be within, I would say, between the 200,000 and $350,000 price point in our area. So the amount times in that-

Ren Jones08:00

So I’d say you take about 120 listings a month, I mean a year roughly.

Katie Engler08:04

Yeah.

Ren Jones08:04

Now and then a hundred sell. And so you have a hundred listings sold. And then out of those a hundred listings sold probably what 40 or 50 you’re going to buy locally. Would that be fair?

Katie Engler08:17

Sure.

Ren Jones08:18

All right. So a hundred listings sold and maybe another 145 buyer sales as a result of the fact they have to immediately pick out a house. So about 145 then maybe how?

Katie Engler08:29

Yeah. That would be the target.

Ren Jones08:31

In your second year. I love it.

Carley Hathaway08:36

Katie, what do you find different about, obviously you, like you said, this newfound success, you’re taking all these listings, you’re getting two, three listing appointments a week. What do you think sets Vulcan apart that has led to this new success?

Katie Engler08:49

The ease of the dashboard. It’s very simple to be able to navigate where you are. The dialers going very quickly. It’s enough to just digest by itself without having navigational issues. And of course the accuracy. The accuracy is everything.

Carley Hathaway09:09

The phone numbers accuracy and the phone numbers. Yeah. I totally agree. Because I mean, it’s hard enough making these phone calls but then to make them, and no one answers and it’s wrong number every time. It’s so frustrating.

Katie Engler09:21

It is. And if you’re going to put the time into it, you need to put that time in front of people that you can speak with and instead of trying to call people that don’t exist.

Carley Hathaway09:30

Yeah, exactly. And do you have any other coaches you follow or any other inspirational people that you read their stuff or anything like that?

Katie Engler09:40

Well, my educational background is in business marketing. That’s what my degrees are in. So I follow certain marketing journals and influencers on that side that may not even be involved in real estate. And I’ve just taken that and merged it with what I’m finding to be successful when I call. So it’s a little bit of everything. It’s some real estate influencers, some marketing influencers, putting them together and just making my own way.

Carley Hathaway10:12

Well, it’s obviously working.

Katie Engler10:14

Thanks.

Carley Hathaway10:18

Yeah. What else?

Ren Jones10:18

So yeah, you’re too new to have a database of any large size, but I’m sure you’re building it up fast at the rate you’re doing business. How many people are in your database? People that you know them, they know you, they would probably send business to you. How many would that be? Those A and B clients?

Katie Engler10:38

I would say 200 and under. My database is not very large.

Ren Jones10:43

Okay, yeah. But 200 people can send a fair amount of business too. What are you doing to communicate with them on a regular basis?

Katie Engler10:51

I have drip campaigns that I have set up, and it’s a small series that’s more of a warm touch point. No one really wants to be sold, especially over an email. They get 500 others a day. And it’s just really me touching base of, “Hey, I’m here. These are the areas I serve. If you have any questions, please come to me.” Type of feel with this. But it is just a drip series campaign that will allow them to just keep me as a relevant agent in their community.

Ren Jones11:24

Do you talk to any of those people?

Katie Engler11:26

I do.

Ren Jones11:27

Okay. You don’t have a regular plan for that yet? Because I guess it’s still for you.

Carley Hathaway11:30

Yeah.

Katie Engler11:34

Yeah. I’ve honestly been focusing on for sale by owner and expireds. And since it’s taken off, I just have been focusing on that.

Carley Hathaway11:47

Yeah. Well, and you said you’re just starting to tap into the for sale by owner leads. What are the biggest differences you see in those compared to the expireds?

Katie Engler11:58

As far as the procedure of how I would go about speaking with them.

Carley Hathaway12:03

Yeah. How you make the call? Is it a longer process? Is there more follow up, less follow up?

Katie Engler12:07

Yes. It’s a very different process and it’s a very different conversation. An expired has already at one point decided that hey, working with an agent could be a great thing, a for sale by owner may or may have not ever worked with an agent before. So it’s two different head spaces. So when I speak with a for sale by owner, it’s already known that it’s going to take me probably two to three months to convert them. Some are just ready off the bat, but most of them are not ready yet. So that plan looks very different.

Carley Hathaway12:42

So you say two to three months. So what is your follow-up with them? So you make the initial call, you get past their anger, you’re having a decent call. When’s your next call or email or follow up after the first one?

Katie Engler12:54

Well, I think that it depends on if this just hit the market or if they’ve been trying to sell for a little while. But regardless, it’s an initial phone call. And then depending on how that goes, I’m trying to land an appointment at least to just see the property. And our inventory is quite low here compared to other places. And it is nice to have other options that maybe aren’t in our MLS. So after that initial preview, then it is really just doing something personal and that’s where you have to tap into, what does that look like for you versus another agent? That’s really where it’s going to set you apart is not giving up after that third or fourth attempt because they’re almost there and you put all that work in and now you fall off and you don’t get it.

Ren Jones13:46

Yeah. I mean, some people say that for sale by owner doesn’t know they have a problem, first you have to help them understand they have a problem and then you offer the solution.

Katie Engler13:54

Yes, I would 100% agree with that.

Ren Jones13:58

So it can take a couple rounds, whereas an expired, you call them on Monday morning, meet with them Monday afternoon and put a pending sign on it on Thursday.

Katie Engler14:10

Yep. They’re definitely more ready in general, not all of them, but as an aggregate, I would say that’s 100% correct.

Ren Jones14:17

Now, not everybody’s friendly. For sale owners are a little friendlier than expired sometimes, but how do you do this on the day you don’t feel like it? Where you feel a little full because there’s a mindset piece to this.

Katie Engler14:32

There’s a huge mindset piece to it. And I think if you go into it with the mindset of, oh my goodness, I may run into that person that’s like, “You’re the 50th person that’s called me, please don’t ever call me again.” You’re going to get that. Everyone’s going to get that. And I don’t think there’s a way around getting it. I think that you just have to look at it as, I have 60 opportunities this morning or however large your market is, and if it’s not you, then it might be one of these other 59 that I’m not going to compromise with my mindset because of the one out of 60 that wasn’t wanting to work with me. So it’s just not penalizing the others, I guess is the most important part.

Carley Hathaway15:13

Yeah, I agree. And what’s the biggest challenge you find when trying to get through to these expireds? Obviously when they answer, they know who you are, they’re trying to shut you down right away. What’s the biggest objection handler that you have been facing?

Katie Engler15:28

Everyone else calling.

Carley Hathaway15:31

And so how do you handle that?

Katie Engler15:32

Yeah, so the biggest thing is not for us to figure out how we can help you, that we already know, at least an overarching view before I even get to your personal situation. But it’s getting to be able to have that part of the conversation. So how I would handle it is just, “I just have a couple of questions for you. If right now is not a good time, I totally respect that. But if you do have a few minutes, I just needed a little bit of clarification.” And go from there. And that’s what that conversation looks like. I feel like some people are very non-respectful and pushy past that comfort zone. And you’re not going to build the trust if you can’t respect them in the first five minutes of the conversation.

Ren Jones16:18

Okay. And we call that a permission question. And by asking that permission question, then they grant you and then you get a little bit of time to talk and make your value proposition.

Katie Engler16:30

Absolutely.

Ren Jones16:30

That’s fantastic. And that seems to work well and folks, there is a great idea. Because if you show that respect, ask the permission question and then they say, “Sure, I’ll listen to you.” And then how do you differentiate yourself from Greg Harrelson and Greg Sisson and all those people?

Katie Engler16:51

Well, we’re far smaller. I mean, both of those gentlemen are very, very prominent in my area. And people that I would love to look up to and follow myself, we are in nowhere near the same apples to apples as agents. But how I would at least start to position myself against it would just be like, “Hey, we’re up at 6:00 AM This is important to us. It’s our livelihood. We want to do anything and everything that we can to help you. The only way that I can share that with you is to be able to get in front of you and lay that out and just let you make your decision for yourself.” It never hurts to give somebody minutes for the fate of the sale of your house. Surprisingly, we all don’t have the same thing to say. So it’s just going about it in a matter of being genuine and letting that genuine personality become the differentiator.

Ren Jones17:45

How long is the typical listing presentation?

Katie Engler17:49

It depends. I would say I don’t like to be there any longer than 20, 25 minutes. And that’s only not because I don’t like it. It’s because I don’t want to overstay my welcome.

Ren Jones18:00

Love it, love it, love it. An Academy Award movie is what an hour and a half? I mean, this is just a listing presentation.

Katie Engler18:09

Yeah.

Carley Hathaway18:09

So what challenge do you face in the listing presentation when you’re in the home? What’s the most common objection?

Katie Engler18:18

How are you going to get it sold when I don’t have the trust that it can be done because the other person failed me?

Carley Hathaway18:25

I think that’s a really good one.

Ren Jones18:28

What’s your batting average? I mean, if you go on 10 of them, how many do you take typically?

Katie Engler18:33

Well, I can say last week I went on four and I took three.

Carley Hathaway18:37

Yeah.

Katie Engler18:38

So thanks. So you’re not going to get them all. And that’s totally fine. And that’s not even looking at it pessimistically or anything, just realism.

Ren Jones18:49

I would think out the 25% you didn’t take or they didn’t take you. So 12 and a half percent of them want you and 12 and a half percent you didn’t want them. I mean, aren’t there sometimes where you’re like, “I got to get out of here.”

Katie Engler19:03

Well, I mean, not everyone is the right fit. Like you’re saying from me to the client or the client to me. And if I don’t feel that I can genuinely help you for whatever reason, be it expectations are not matching, timelines aren’t matching, the market’s not matching, whatever it may be, I would rather have that honest conversation of, “Mr. And Mrs. House seller based on how far apart we are here with realistic expectations. I just don’t feel comfortable telling you something that I can’t deliver on.” And that may happen instead of just saying whatever it takes to get someone to list with you and that’s not going to do anything but tarnish your reputation.

Carley Hathaway19:44

I agree.

Katie Engler19:44

And hurt your client.

Ren Jones19:45

Love it.

Carley Hathaway19:46

Yeah. So you were saying the biggest one is, how can you get this sold when no one else has been able to? So what do you say to that?

Katie Engler19:55

That’s where that 6:00 AM research comes into play. So we’re taking a look at how does this house position itself in the market? Why is it positioned that way? Who else has been positioned that way? Putting it together in a factual presentation, not a promise presentation, a factual presentation, and letting it speak for itself, not just here’s the three comps, what do you think? It’s way more robust than that. So when we sit down and we have all these facts laid out, it’s just becomes hard to argue with all of this data when you’re flipping from page to page of just proof upon proof of what works and what’s tried and true.

Ren Jones20:39

So this is a very informational listing presentation. It sounds like you got a fair amount of data.

Katie Engler20:45

Yeah, it’s very data based. I feel like we can all sit down and speak about our marketing plan, but not all of us are going to sit down and speak about how we’ve effectively done it for 5, 10, 15, 20 people in the last month.

Ren Jones20:59

And specific to their home and how they’re positioned in the market. That is great. I love it. Because a lot of times the listing agent is only talking about themselves, and really it has to do with how do we get your house under contract? And this is what we see. That carries the day. No wonder you’re taking three out of four. Great.

Katie Engler21:24

Thank you. I think a lot of us in sales, the number one thing that my father taught me who was in sales forever, is sometimes we just have to learn how to listen instead of speak. And it makes sense of they’re going to tell you what their motivation is, but if it’s you just saying how great you are and what awards you have, you’re not going to hear that because they don’t have the opportunity to tell you.

Carley Hathaway21:49

And people love to feel heard. So once they feel heard and they understand you listen, they’re going to let their guard down and trust you a little more.

Ren Jones21:58

Fantastic. Well, you may talk about some of these other people doing a lot of business in your market, but I think you all of a sudden overnight, a 145 sales, which is the direction you’re going. That’s fantastic. And in two years in the business, this is-

Katie Engler22:13

Thank you.

Ren Jones22:16

… pretty exciting.

Katie Engler22:18

I’m proud to be a part of Coldwell Banker and Chicora Advantage in our area. I mean, a year to date, we’ve done a hundred million, so it’s completely exploding. And we just have so much support and so many resources. It’s nice to have that around you.

Ren Jones22:36

Yeah, and I would think that, what do you think the factor is when you go in representing a well-respected name like that? Does that make it easier for you?

Katie Engler22:44

Sure. I think that people understand who Coldwell Banker is. I mean, I’m sure you can say that for the top five, 10 brokerages, I would be saying the same thing. But I think that knowing our backing and knowing the tools that we have, the resources we have with other mentors that are in our business, just the sheer network alone is just when you feel that support, you are more confident when you go in and present because you know that you have all the tools that you need to help your client.

Carley Hathaway23:17

And confidence is so key when you’re walking into a listing appointment.

Katie Engler23:21

Absolutely.

Ren Jones23:22

Good. Well, this is exciting and it’s exciting what you’re getting accomplished. And I hope a lot of people that are in their second year in the business or it’s their first year, and look that you to can just… I mean, how do you sell 145 homes a year? You just every day, Katie’s doing, just worry about taking one listing every day. Now you’re not going to take five in five days, but if you took two, you took three. That’s all it takes. And you do it on the days you don’t feel like it, which you rolled that off like, “Oh, that’s easy.” But for many people it’s not. What do you do, Katie, because you have a lot of pendings now, what do you do when you wake up and you’ve got a wall of pendings and all this stuff coming at you? How do you handle that and go out and take three more listings? I mean, that’s where people get knocked down this time of year especially. They’re like, “I can’t handle the business I have.” What say you?

Katie Engler24:20

It’s really about being organized and having your time management from the beginning. Because if you wake up one morning and all of a sudden you have 10 things on the whiteboard that you weren’t mentally prepared for, it’s now we’re just playing catch up. So we have a system. I like to just honestly use Excel. Excel and I are friends, so I have everything written out. My perspective clients, my pending sales, my listing appointments, every category that’s important to my day. And I’m just running through it, seeing, okay, what’s missing? What do I need for this client? And it’s every day before I go to bed. So it’s never going to creep up on me being 20 tasks at 8:00 AM that I had no idea that I had. So it’s really just the consistency you have-

Ren Jones25:08

So you’ve got a good structure. And do you have any staff yet or is just you and your husband doing it together and that’s it?

Katie Engler25:16

It’s just us. Now our brokerage does offer certain services for transaction coordination, which we have considered tapping into as we scale.

Ren Jones25:26

So as you scale and all of a sudden you need somebody to just work some of the routine pen to close things for you, it’s there. And they just add that onto the settlement.

Katie Engler25:35

Yes.

Ren Jones25:36

Send you a bill after closing.

Katie Engler25:38

Worry about it then.

Ren Jones25:40

Scale up to 200, no problem or 300.

Katie Engler25:44

That would be great.

Ren Jones25:44

Good deal. Well, this has been a thrill. We appreciate you being here.

Carley Hathaway25:46

Yeah. This is an awesome interview. And you know what, I really want to interview you in one year and see what your goals are then, see where you’re at.

Katie Engler25:56

Oh, that would be terrific. I really appreciate both of you having me on. It’s been an honor to be able to be on the show.

Carley Hathaway26:03

Oh, awesome. Thank you for joining us.

Ren Jones26:05

Congratulations on all your success.

Carley Hathaway26:08

Yeah.

Katie Engler26:08

Thank you.

Ren Jones26:10

So we’ll see everybody later.

Carley Hathaway26:12

All right. Thanks, Katie. Bye.

Katie Engler26:14

Thank you so much. Bye guys.

Carley Hathaway26:16

Bye.

Ren Jones26:18

So everybody, I want to read these little notes at the end of the show. If you’re watching on Vulcan7 and you want to get involved with the Lead Gen Facebook group who simulcasts our show, go to facebook.com/group/gotobjections. I want to thank Aaron Wittstein, who runs a program. He has a program called trajectorynow.com. And finally, if you’re watching on Facebook and you’re not yet involved with Vulcan7, make sure to sign up at vulcan7.com/leadgen for a special deal. Now, many of you are wondering, how does Katie do it? Two years in the business. Now here’s her secret, and it’s helpful in two ways. It gives you the power you need on your listening presentations, and if the listening doesn’t sell, it helps you.

27:05So as soon as she’s done making her calls around 11:30, she goes and gets some delicious Graeter’s mint chocolate chip ice cream. It’s the one for listing, that’s the flavor. You can find it anywhere in North America. Go to graeters.com. The mint chocolate chip is for listening, the other flavors, or if you’re working with buyers. So get this in the listing side. Buyers take time, listings take skill. If the listing is slowed to sell, dig a hole on the ground, bury it upside down and that listing will sell, just like this. I want to thank everybody for being here. We’ll see you guys next week.

Carley Hathaway27:41

Bye.

Ren Jones27:42

Bye everybody.

27:42