S9 E4: How To Get Clients As A New Real Estate Agent

Ren Jones (00:13):
It’s that time. Welcome to Roadmap, how to take three listings a week until you’re ready for more. Each week, we interview a great agent who’s consistently taking several listings each month, and we have an exciting guest today. We encourage you to take notes and apply as much of their knowledge as quickly as you can, and then use the copycat principle. Let’s go ahead and welcome our guest today from Boise, Idaho. Dominic Zimmer. Welcome, Dominic.

Dominic Zimmer (00:47):
Hey, thanks, Ren. Good to be here.

Ren Jones (00:49):
Glad you’re here. I am glad you’re here and I’m excited to talk to you about your business. I’ve heard some wonderful things about it and I’m looking forward to learning more, as is our audience.

Dominic Zimmer (01:03):
Great. I’m happy to share. I’ve actually been a viewer of this program for years and years. So yeah, ask away, man.

Ren Jones (01:10):
I understand, you’ve been doing this six, seven, eight years, something like that. Somewhere around there.

Dominic Zimmer (01:15):
Seven years.

Ren Jones (01:15):
Seven years. Good. And then what’s the goal for sales next year? What do you got going?

Dominic Zimmer (01:22):
Yep. You know what? Our minimum goal is always to put 250 grand in our pocket, Ren. So whatever it takes to get to that. And then anything above that, we’re happy campers here.

Ren Jones (01:32):
That sounds great. That sounds great. So quarter mill and plus, so maybe 300, 350 have been nice stretch Goal.

Dominic Zimmer (01:42):
350 would be absolutely wonderful. As I said, we’re talking off camera, time is very important to us, so as long as I have time for family and time for the other things we like to do. Yeah, 250 get us there, 350, get us there in style.

Ren Jones (02:00):
Wonderful. So where do you like to get business from? Where’s most of your business coming from or a variety of places?

Dominic Zimmer (02:07):
Yeah, so the majority of our business originates in prospected deals. You got time for a quick story. Can I tell you a quick story?

Ren Jones (02:17):
Sure.

Dominic Zimmer (02:18):
Yeah. I first got my license, I had been on the ocean for over 20 years, I didn’t know anybody. I didn’t really know what to do. I was told us to tell all of my friends and family that now I was a real estate agent and deals would just fall out of the sky.

Ren Jones (02:34):
That worked, didn’t it?

Dominic Zimmer (02:37):
Yeah, well that’s what I… Didn’t quite work like that. I had a friend who also got their license at the same time and she recommended that I go to a Keller Williams Bold event. And so I did that even though I wasn’t at Keller Williams, and there were a bunch of people using this thing called a dialer. They were all signed up with Vulcan7. And I said, “What’s that?” I started looking over her shoulder and watching her do it, and I ran right out and I wrote the check and I got Vulcan7 and I signed up for it and I opened that thing up and I’m not going to lie, for 30 days in a row, I opened up that dialer and I stared at it, and I couldn’t push start Ren.

(03:17):
I couldn’t do it, even though I knew the scripts and I knew what to say and I was like, “Oh man, I can’t do it.” So I’d sit there for an hour and ultimately the truth is, until the pain of not doing it becomes greater than the pain of doing it, you’re going nowhere. So ultimately, I pressed go on that dialer and I started using the scripts that I had at the time, and I signed up an expired listing. I got an appointment with one and I don’t even remember what I said to that guy, but he trusted me and liked me enough that I was hooked and that’s it. I just started prospecting and our business has grown ever since.

Ren Jones (03:58):
So would it be fair to say that because you were involved in that Bold group at the time and there was little peer pressure and other people were doing it, that pushed you forward a little bit?

Dominic Zimmer (04:10):
That helped me get over the hump. Seeing other people get results, and I thought, well, you know what? I’ve been out on the ocean doing this horribly difficult job for 20 years. I can pick up the phone and talk to somebody. What’s the worst that’s going to happen?

Ren Jones (04:27):
So the social proof made you go a little bit further and it reminds us of the mental side of this game so much when you think about it, Dominic. The mental side to this game, sure, if you were serving up french fries at a restaurant or something like that, that’s hard work. But in a lot of ways, it doesn’t create a knot in your stomach or create heart palpitations like maybe talking to a stranger might do. And in some ways, that can be a bigger roadblock than french fries.

Dominic Zimmer (05:08):
Yeah, I couldn’t agree with you more. Look, because it’s the unknown that gets you. You can imagine what it would be like breaking ice with a sledgehammer at three o’clock in the morning. That’s what my life was before. But picking up the phone and facing social rejection, there’s an unknown there. You think you know what that might feel like and that prevents you from picking up that phone and making that call. But I’ll tell you, once you start doing it, you realize that the absolute worst thing that can happen is somebody hangs up the phone or they might might say something unpleasant, but once you know, you start doing this for a while and tracking your numbers, then you know that, hey, every one of these people that I talk to is one step closer to getting what I want, which is the opportunity to help somebody and ultimately a paycheck.

Ren Jones (06:02):
We have a bunch of people watching right now, Dominic, and a lot of them are like, “Can I do this? Or I’ve been trying to do this, I’m not getting away at work.” And they’re wondering about that piece because it is the tougher piece. What do I say? How do I say it? What? What’s going to cause me to do it on the days I don’t feel like it? Which is most of the days. If you were starting over today, what would you do to push through that? Because I don’t know that it would be a Keller Williams Bold class. What would it be? What would you get involved with to pull you through when you didn’t feel like doing it, to get to the other side and make a quarter of a million and have a great life?

Dominic Zimmer (06:47):
Yeah. Yeah. If Dominic Zimmer today could go back to Dominic Zimmer at the end of 2015 and give him some advice, it would be, “Hey man, the first thing you got to do is go get yourself a coach.”

Ren Jones (07:03):
Okay.

Dominic Zimmer (07:04):
That’s the first one.

Ren Jones (07:05):
I’m going to write that down. Go get a coach. Gosh, we sure pushed that hard. Somebody sent you to us and often it is coaches sent it, sign up with whatever, whoever sent you. Who sent you, by the way?

Dominic Zimmer (07:18):
Probably Brandon Mulrenin sent me, I’m guessing. He’s my coach and has been for years. I mean, obviously I have a great relationship with Brandon and his coaching program has really accelerated my progress, given me big chunks of my life back. So I’m a big proponent of that. But a coach, whether it’s Brandon or somebody else, somebody you don’t know what you don’t know. And when you first get your real estate license, you don’t know squat. You think you do, but you don’t. And the quicker you can get a roadmap, if you will, to show you the direction you need to go, and then the accountability to actually do what you need to do, you’re just going to be out there floundering and doing this the hard way. And you’d have to be really, really lucky to build a business without some sort of guidance from a coach.

Ren Jones (08:10):
I think it helps. It sounds like you can either sign up and get a fishing pole and rod and bait, or you can pay somebody to show you, take you out and show you where and how to catch the fish.

Dominic Zimmer (08:26):
Yeah, yeah. Pay a guide, go straight to the fish. Absolutely. That’s a great analogy, Ren. So you get a coach that is going to give you a great dialogue, right? Because these calls that we’re making, there are conversations with other people, just other humans and it’s like you are given a big basket of rocks and dirt every day and you are just sifting through that, looking for a few specs of gold every single day. And the way that we do that is with scripts and dialogues. And our scripts and dialogues are designed to help us get to what we want to know as quickly as possible. And that is, does this person need help and can I help them? That is the point of a script.

Ren Jones (09:15):
And I love your analogy with going for the specs of gold because really, you end up, if every morning for two or three hours you are in conversations to find a listing and people are like, “Well, that doesn’t sound like you’re getting very far.” And you’re like, “Yeah, but every week I take one or two listings or sometimes three.”

Dominic Zimmer (09:35):
It just depends. Yeah. It just depends on what… Because we’re looking for, if I don’t take any listings in a week for example, that means that I haven’t found somebody that meets my criteria, which is that they have very specific motivation, they’re willing to make a move, they’re able to make a move and to have a timeline. They had to tell me, “Hey, I need to be in Texas by Christmas because I have a job transfer and my family’s down there waiting for me.” That’s who I’m looking for. Right?

Ren Jones (10:08):
Exactly. Exactly.

Dominic Zimmer (10:10):
Yeah. So that’s when I’m making those calls, I’m asking the kinds of questions, “Hey, listen, I saw your house come off the market. I wasn’t sure if you sold it privately or did something crazy happen there?”

Ren Jones (10:23):
There you go. And that sounds friendly.

Dominic Zimmer (10:26):
It’s very-

Ren Jones (10:27):
Somebody’s going to respond well to that, even if they’ve gotten four or five other poorly worded calls.

Dominic Zimmer (10:34):
And it is very, very conversational, and you’re giving somebody the opportunity to tell you, oh, look, I don’t care if they love their agent and it’s their mom or somebody from their church and they’re never changing, I’m fine with that. I just want to get to that part of the conversation as quickly as possible. It doesn’t hurt my feelings if they love their agent and they’re never going to do anything different. I’m not trying to convince somebody to leave their agent. I don’t want to convince somebody to move that doesn’t have a need to move. That’s not what we’re looking for, Ren.

Ren Jones (11:02):
No, you can’t motivate somebody. They have to have the motivation already. If they want to move, if they have to move, if they need to move, great, but you’re not going to talk them into that. It’s not like candy at the checkout aisle. It’s not an impulse item.

Dominic Zimmer (11:19):
I’m looking for somebody who’s already in the process. They’ve already made the decision to move, and my job is, well, I mean, I kind of want to come in a superhero type situation and say, “Listen, I know your last agent let you down. It sounds like you still want to sell your home. You still need to sell your home, and here’s what has to happen in order for that to be possible. Are you willing to do these things to get your home to sell?” And if they say no, I’m okay with that, I just need to know that as soon as possible.

Ren Jones (11:56):
Yeah, let’s talk about that. The pre-qualifying process. Now, when we say pre-qualifying, a lot of people in our industry go, “Oh, you mean with their mortgage or being able to…” No, not necessarily financially pre-qualifying. Are they willing to do what it takes to get it under contract and close? Are they willing to, as far as price and terms and condition and everything, are they willing to do everything? What’s your pre-qualifying process like?

Dominic Zimmer (12:24):
Yep. So when I talk to somebody on the phone, the first thing I want to do is establish that they’re not just going to turn around and sign a contract with the same agent they had. So number one is are they open to meeting with me to discuss other options? That’s number one. I don’t try to force a meeting. You can, I’m really good. I can force an appointment on somebody, but I don’t want to do that. I want somebody to invite me over to their home. Now I want to know what the motivation is, Ren. And I ask that question and I ask it very casually, “Hey, listen, Ren, looks like your house came off the market. Wasn’t sure if you were still trying to sell it, or you guys accept an offer privately or something crazy happened.” They’re going to say something like, We just took it off the market. It might not be a good time to sell.”

(13:17):
And okay, so I want to know about that. Hey, Tuscany’s a great subdivision. What had you guys thinking about making a move in the first place? Oh, well, listen, I got a job transferred down to Texas, got to be there by Christmas. Bing. Right? That’s number one. They’re qualified now. They have motivation. Now, I want to know, well, so geez, you guys are on the market for 97 days. What the heck happened? Did you get any offers? And then they’re going to tell me, well, yeah, we had one low ball offer at the beginning, or it doesn’t matter what they say. Oh, okay, well, were you getting a lot of showings? And they’re going to say whatever they say, no showings, we had 50 showings. It doesn’t matter. I’ll say, “Oh, geez. Well, while your home was on the market and your agent was calling you up every week with your weekly update and they’re telling you what was working and what wasn’t working and what they’re going to do differently, what were they telling you?”

(14:13):
I’m going to ask that question because that is going to give me my second qualification, right? Do they have doubts about the job their agent was doing. And if they say-

Ren Jones (14:24):
Yeah, that’ll plant that seed for sure.

Dominic Zimmer (14:26):
Oh, that’s what I want to do, Ren, that’s a qualifier. I want to know, Hey, do they have doubt about this guy? If they say “Weekly update? Well, we signed the papers and we didn’t hear anything from this guy.” I’ll say, “Wow, you guys deserve better than that.” And then pause for a second and they’ll say whatever they say in that pause. Well, I mean, yeah, that kind of sucks. Say, “Listen, let’s do this. I don’t know if I can help you guys or not. Why don’t you invite me over one day this week? I’d be happy to stop by and go over a plan with you that would actually cause your home to sell. And then at the end of our meeting, you can decide if working together now or in the future makes sense or not. Is that fair?”

Ren Jones (15:11):
Yeah, exactly. And it takes a few hours to get to where you have that one conversation and that one person, and it all lines up, the planets line up. But we can do it on a consistent basis if we’re willing to, well, what’s the word? Embrace repetitious board.

Dominic Zimmer (15:26):
Yeah, there you go. And you’re asking, so one of the things I do to hold myself accountable and to show other new agents to exactly what you just said is it might take two hours or three hours, it might take a couple of days before you have that exact conversation, is every single day, I jump on in a Facebook group with my coach, in Brandon’s coaching organization, I jump on and go live every day so that other agents can see that, Hey, I talked to 10 people before we got on here, and not one of them is anything.

(16:02):
There’s no lead, no nothing, I had 10 conversations. But that’s how this is. We’re sifting through gold. And so while I’m prospecting live, those new agents that are afraid to jump on the phone, they’re watching me and they’re asking me questions about my dialogues and what I’m saying and why I’m saying it, so that they can gain the confidence to do this as well, and that they can see that it’s a long grind. You just don’t pick up the phone and go, oh, yeah. Come list me? Okay. Yeah, great. That’s not how it works.

Ren Jones (16:30):
No, not very often, but once in a while.

Dominic Zimmer (16:33):
Yeah. So there you go.

Ren Jones (16:37):
So you have a form of accountability with other people and people are learning from you and you’re learning from them. And social media, through Facebook, isn’t that-

Dominic Zimmer (16:46):
It’s a Facebook group. It’s a private group where other members of the coaching group are free to exchange ideas, and we have the opportunity to prospect live in there. So I queue up the dialer and I have my headset here where I just jump on and they can hear the prospect and they can hear me and they can hear this exchange, and it just gives them the opportunity because they’re waiting for me to come on in the morning, I got to do it.

Ren Jones (17:18):
That creates quite a lot of accountability. It’s sort of meeting somebody at the gym. You might not go to the gym except for the fact that somebody’s standing there waiting for you.

Dominic Zimmer (17:29):
Yep. Yep.

Ren Jones (17:30):
And there’s so many for people that are watching this, you’re thinking, well, he’s part of a private group and that’s fine. And there are hundreds of these out there. There are lots and lots and lots of Zoom groups that are 6, 8, 10, 12 people that they all make calls together and they’re all busy making their calls. And it creates some accountability for them because they’re all on there and they can tune in and listen to each other. And with Vulcan7, we have a program called Take 52 twice a week where you can get on and there are other people and they practice and you learn, and you can just go on there and lurk and just listen if you want or watch and they’ll tell you what they’re saying and how they’re doing what they’re doing.

(18:16):
And usually there’s 150 people each time on that. So it’s easy to lurk and learn. And then of course, we encourage people to get involved just as you are, get involved in somebody’s coaching somewhere, and half of the time, it’s a coach that sent them to us. You go back and join their coaching because that raises the amount of accountability, systems, scripts and dialogues and everything else. So there’s a lot of different places you can go for your best practices and to learn from each other to get this thing going.

Dominic Zimmer (18:48):
Yeah, no, no, I agree wholeheartedly. And being in a group like that, especially a higher level, higher producing group, all the time, I’ll watch somebody that I haven’t ever watched prospecting before. So some of the guys that you’ve had on here, for example, and if I’ll catch something that they say that either I’ve heard before and have just forgotten to use it in my daily prospecting or something that’s completely new and implement that and holy moly, next thing you know your script is just a little bit better.

Ren Jones (19:18):
Exactly. Because there’s so many little things that you can say.

Dominic Zimmer (19:23):
Yeah.

Ren Jones (19:24):
It never occurred to you, but there’s a set of best practices. Don’t reinvent the wheel folks.

Dominic Zimmer (19:30):
And I would also add to a new agent who is watching this and not sure about what to say or how to say it. I mean, obviously, I spend a lot of time working on tonality. If you pick up the phone and say, “Yeah, this is Ren,” then I’m going to say, “Hey, this is Dominic. Hey, don’t hang up on me.” I’m going to tone match. If somebody says “Hello,” then I’m going to take it down an notch and go, “Hey, this is Dominic Zimmer, I don’t know if you can help me or not.” It’s tone matching, but what I was going to say, Ren is-

Ren Jones (19:59):
Right, right. It’s that tone matching and then they say pacing leading, they’re talking like that and they’re talking like that. Then you start leading slightly with enthusiasm, and then they follow you and become a little more enthusiastic too. So you pace them, kind of like when you’re walking down the road together and then you leave a little bit and then they follow you, which can be-

Dominic Zimmer (20:22):
Exactly.

Ren Jones (20:24):
Mirroring, matching, pacing and leading. And another one pauses, say something and then pause for one or two beats so they can digest what you said.

Dominic Zimmer (20:35):
Yeah, it’s hard.

Ren Jones (20:36):
A lot of time we’re sitting there going, we have to put those pauses in.

Dominic Zimmer (20:41):
The pause is so important and it’s the hardest thing to do in conversation. But when you ask a question and you’re asking one of your questions, for example, “Hey listen, sounds like you’re off the market. I’m curious, if I had a buyer that was looking for a property like yours, would it be okay if I told them about your home?”

Ren Jones (21:05):
There you go. And then that pause.

Dominic Zimmer (21:07):
Yeah, then they hear it.

Ren Jones (21:10):
And the pause you did where you’re saying, they say say, “Well, my agent didn’t talk to me once a week” and you said something similar to, “Well, you don’t deserve that” or whatever.

Dominic Zimmer (21:20):
You deserve better than that.

Ren Jones (21:22):
You deserve better than that. And then you paused.

Dominic Zimmer (21:25):
Yeah.

Ren Jones (21:26):
And then they thought about that for a second.

Dominic Zimmer (21:28):
Yeah.

Ren Jones (21:29):
The power. When somebody told me about the power of pauses, I think that was good for an extra five, six listings a year.

Dominic Zimmer (21:36):
Look, I’m telling you, and for a new agent, again, this is something that obviously I said at the very beginning of our interview, but I was letting perfect get in the way of progress. I mean, yes, definitely memorize your scripts and internalize them and then personalize them. But don’t let that take three months. Just do it. Get the script outline down. And if you have to sit there with the script in front of you, you could take listings if you do that enough. Hi, this is Dominic. I am a local agent and I’m calling about the property at 1, 2, 3. If you did that enough, you’re going to get listings because activity trumps all.

Ren Jones (22:20):
Right, right. Whenever there’s that, people for years talking about the law of attraction. Well, there’s the law of action. If you’re in motion, even blind squirrels find nuts now and then.

Dominic Zimmer (22:35):
It’s true. It’s true.

Ren Jones (22:36):
If you’re moving along, you’re going to find something. And if you improve 1% a day and you get involved in these groups, whether it’s our Take 52 program, takefivetwo.com, or you get involved in a Zoom group or your Facebook private Facebook group where everybody’s practicing and you just get better and better and better and better and better. And pretty soon, well, face it. Look at the choice, Dominic, because you’re two thirds listing sold versus buyer sales.

Dominic Zimmer (23:06):
Yep. That’s right.

Ren Jones (23:06):
And we know where your buyer sales come from. You sold their home and they have nowhere to live. And so that’s a two-day thing. You go out twice, and they pick one out. They have to. But you look at the other option, how many real estate agents are like two-thirds buyers and they’re just showing and showing and showing and showing and showing and showing? Then the people stop looking. Then they show and they show and they show and the people stop looking and they’re working nights and weekends, especially weekends. But what you and I are doing, I did it for years, and you’re doing it now is it’s a Monday through Friday job, daytime, early evening at best.

Dominic Zimmer (23:52):
So what we’re doing, the most important thing about what we’re doing to me is it’s scalable as I need it to be. If I’m sitting around in my office waiting for, I’ve never bought buyer leads. I don’t know exactly how it works, but if you’re sitting around waiting for a lead to drop.

Ren Jones (24:09):
It’s like this, this is buying buyer leads, just go ahead and shoot yourself.

Dominic Zimmer (24:14):
I mean, I know that for every 99 or a hundred people that I talk to, I’m getting a paycheck and I don’t want to be… I know the right things to say, I’m going to find somebody to help, which is obviously that’s what we’re doing, but I’m finding somebody to help so that I can further the quality of my life, and I just know that I can scale that. If I want more opportunities to help people and thus more paychecks, then I spend more time on the dialer. Otherwise, I don’t know what you’re doing with your day. If you’re a real estate agent and you’re not talking to people who want to transact or somewhere in the process of transacting, what are you doing with your day?

Ren Jones (24:56):
I’m working on my pending, Dominic.

Dominic Zimmer (25:00):
I mean, yeah.

Ren Jones (25:01):
Singular pending.

Dominic Zimmer (25:02):
Yeah. How much time is that?

Ren Jones (25:04):
I hope it doesn’t fall through.

Dominic Zimmer (25:06):
Yeah, seriously. Seriously. So if you’re not picking up the phone, if you don’t know your numbers, if you don’t know after 90 days.

Ren Jones (25:13):
We talked to 9,500 people and you get a nice, and your commission checks are pretty big. 1560.

Dominic Zimmer (25:19):
Yeah, that’s right. That’s right.

Ren Jones (25:21):
That’s pretty nice.

Dominic Zimmer (25:22):
And so I know how many people I’ve got to talk to. I don’t know how many conversations per hour I have. We track all this in a spreadsheet and I’m sure they’re readily available. I got mine from Brandon’s program, but they’re out there, just productivity tractors. And you can look at Vulcan7 when you’re finished with a session, you can go to your calls page and you can see how many contacts that I make, and I keep a notebook in front of me that talks this. Everybody that I talked to, what the lead source was when I started, when I stopped, and I can enter that into my spreadsheet at the end of the day, how many appointments I got, how many contracts were signed, how many listings closed. And so I have a business here.

Ren Jones (26:04):
And it sounds like you’re running it like a business. And when you’re on the listing side of the business, it’s easier to run it like a business because there’s so much more control. You can work, like the rest of the world does five days a week, enjoy your weekends off. You can take four to six weeks vacation every year on the listing side of the business. But if you’re mostly buyers, your pants are on fire and you’re just going 90 miles an hour and you have no personal time and all the family photos of you are with your phone to your ear because you’re working the buy side, which is exhausting.

Dominic Zimmer (26:38):
There’s too much uncertainty on that side of it for me.

Ren Jones (26:42):
I know. Which is why the burnout’s so high on that. And if you’re a listing agent, you dominate and you’re in 20 years later, you’re doing well in the business.

Dominic Zimmer (26:51):
Yeah, I want to spend my time finding people to put a sign in their front yard so that the other, there’s 8,000 other agents in my market, I want them to go do the work after, so I want to put-

Ren Jones (27:05):
Right. Well, those are your employees. Those are your employees.

Dominic Zimmer (27:07):
Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. I want to put it in the work upfront and that evening, getting the contract signed and then I want to put my process into place so that I know that this eventually is going to turn into a paycheck. And I keep saying that, but obviously I don’t get… We’re the last ones to get paid, Ren, you know that, having been an agent forever. I don’t get paid until everybody else is happy, until the seller has what they want. And so the process is very clear from the moment we’re sitting down at the kitchen table, signing the paperwork, all the way up until closing. There’s a very clearly defined process of what’s going to happen. And during that time, like you said, those other 8,000 agents are all working with three buyers. There’s 24,000 people out there that I want to come and see my property or at least potentially come and see it. So that’s how we look at it.

Ren Jones (28:06):
It’s a beautiful thing and so much good advice today, Dominic. And there are going to be people that want to reach out and ask you a question. Would that be okay?

Dominic Zimmer (28:15):
Yeah, sure. Absolutely.

Ren Jones (28:16):
What’s the best way for them to reach you?

Dominic Zimmer (28:19):
Shoot me a text. 2088633665. Just say, “Hey, I saw you, I saw on Roadmap had a quick question.”

Ren Jones (28:31):
Wonderful. Wonderful. I appreciate that a whole bunch and this is going to help a lot of people that are trying to get their stride. Maybe they’re only taking one listing a month or something, or maybe they’re like two seven buyer sales a year, wherever they are in their business. And maybe there are people that are doing a lot now, but they want to pick up that extra edge and add one extra listing each month. There’s some good thoughts here that I know they’re all that are going to help them in that.

Dominic Zimmer (28:57):
Well, I sure hope so, Ren, I’ve got a lot from watching these shows and participating with Vulcan7 over the years, so hopefully our interview helps somebody out there.

Ren Jones (29:07):
Good. Well thank you Dominic. And let’s do this again.

Dominic Zimmer (29:11):
Yeah, I’d love to.

Ren Jones (29:12):
I’ll check in with you in a year and a half and see where you are and what advice they should be thinking about.

Dominic Zimmer (29:18):
Sounds good, Ren. Thanks very much. Have a good one.

Ren Jones (29:21):
You too, Dom. Bye-bye.

Dominic Zimmer (29:22):
Bye.