How Katie Engler grew to 12 agents with daily listing prospecting

Sarah Close 00:04

So if you were talking with an agent that was just licensed and freshly minted, what would be your feedback for them of the top areas to put their focus onto to become a professional agent?

Katie Engler 00:17

I would honestly jump right into the listing side, and I’m kind of biased on that, but I feel like there’s a huge misconception that when you first start off, that you need to start with buyers. And that’s not true. But the reason why I say to start off on the listing side is you’re starting to build your geographic area that you’re farming for listings.

You don’t have to jump right into expired listings, but you’re having these conversations and through time, they will start panning out and you can scale your business a lot easier that way.

Ren Jones 00:49

They just get the little condos that some of the local agents don’t want that much or something like that. Get started on some of the smaller stuff and then work their way up.

Katie Engler 01:00

Yep. Just have the conversations because a lot of agents get caught into how they’re going to do something, but they don’t actually do it. So pick up the phone. That’s going to be your number one best friend.

Ren Jones 01:25

It’s that time. Welcome to Roadmap, how to take three listings a week until you’re ready for more. Each week we interview a great agent who’s taking several listings each month, and we have an exciting guest today, so make sure to take a lot of notes because we’re going to be presenting some really awesome information. And then use the copycat principle.

Let me introduce first my co-host, who’s an amazing co-host from beautiful little Camp Dennison, Ohio, which is really in Greater Cincinnati. Sarah Close, welcome, Sarah.

Sarah Close 02:06

Thank you for having me. Good to see you.

Ren Jones 02:08

Good to see you. And Sarah runs, has, owns, co-owns a number of Keller Williams offices all around southern Ohio that serve northern Kentucky and parts of Indiana and the southern half of the state. And you run a pretty powerful team selling a couple hundred homes a year. Couple hundred, is it?

Sarah Close 02:30

Couple hundred is the goal. That’s exactly right. Yeah, so we’re off to a good start.

Ren Jones 02:34

Pardon?

Sarah Close 02:35

We’re off to a good start, so can’t complain.

Ren Jones 02:37

Good. And then you got 5 or 600 agents?

Sarah Close 02:40

Yeah, right now, just about right around 560.

Ren Jones 02:43

560, that is a good number. That’s a great number.

Sarah Close 02:47

All the good ones.

Ren Jones 02:48

Did you take all the good ones in town?

Sarah Close 02:48

We took all the good ones. We got a good group.

Ren Jones 02:54

Good. That’s awesome. All right, well, let’s get our guest in here right away.

Sarah Close 02:59

Awesome.

Ren Jones 02:59

And this is a repeat guest. We had her on back in June, almost four years ago. Just shy of four years ago.

Sarah Close 03:07

Different world four years ago.

Ren Jones 03:08

I know. And she’s in a very competitive market, an amazing market. I would love to be in that market. Myrtle Beach, Miss, I don’t know pronouns anymore, Katie Engler.

Sarah Close 03:22

There we go. We’ll go with it.

Ren Jones 03:23

Katie.

Katie Engler 03:23

Hey guys, thanks so much for having me.

Sarah Close 03:27

Katie, thanks for being here.

Ren Jones 03:28

Yes.

Katie Engler 03:29

Absolutely.

Ren Jones 03:31

Glad you’re here. So a lot probably has changed, a lot probably remains the same. You’re probably just knocking them out of the park every day, but maybe a few more balls go out of the park.

Katie Engler 03:45

That’s hilarious. Yes, we’re definitely scaling and you’re right, Ren, it’s still several listings a week. Of course, that’s not always every single week, but we try the best that we possibly can and we’re growing.

Ren Jones 04:04

Good.

Katie Engler 04:04

Great.

Ren Jones 04:05

Fantastic. So what does that look like? What’s the goal for sales this year in, say, units?

Katie Engler 04:09

Well, last time you spoke with me, it was just my husband and myself, and now we kind of fluctuate right around as a team of about 12. So our goals are vastly different. My goal for this year would be right around 40 million.

Ren Jones 04:24

Holy crew.

Sarah Close 04:26

So what does that look like?

Ren Jones 04:26

You’ve got a dozen, huh?

Katie Engler 04:26

Yes.

Sarah Close 04:30

In your market, how many units is that for you guys, Katie?

Katie Engler 04:33

It really varies. Personally, I like to do anything over 400, so I’m going to have a little bit less number of closed sales than someone doing more transactions. But I would say that would represent probably close to about 70 to 80 sales.

Sarah Close 04:48

Awesome. That’s very exciting.

Ren Jones 04:50

Good number.

Sarah Close 04:51

Very exciting. And then talk to us a little bit about your business breakdown. Are you guys 50/50 listings, buyers, or do you tend to weigh it more heavily towards listings? What is that anatomy for you guys?

Katie Engler 05:04

Sure. So personally, as the team leader, I am, I want to say, 98% listing side. The rest of it’s going to be buy-side business from my listings. The team, some of them are complete buy side by choice. I give them choice of which way they want to go. Some are blended and some want to only do listings as well, so we leave that up…

Sarah Close 05:25

That’s awesome. And how are you guys structured? What is the org chart, if you will, inside your organization? So yourself, there’s your husband. Do you guys have a support team, or how do you guys take care of that group?

Katie Engler 05:39

Sure. So we’re still growing and figuring it out, but right now I serve the role as team leader. My husband is sales manager. I have a licensed agent on my team that is also in production, but a big part of her role is our transaction manager and admin. I would like to add another admin to the team and an ISA, but I’m not there yet.

Sarah Close 05:59

Yep, I gotcha. It’s baby steps. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Where do you see your business coming from in ’23? And then I guess I would also say, as an add-on, what changes have you guys seen, if any, with some of the market dynamics since maybe August of last year?

Katie Engler 06:16

Sure. So I think that I’m trying to teach our team to go out and seek the business and not wait for leads to be the only source of business. It’s a great supplement. And I mean buyer leads by that, by the way, just for clarification. Going out and seeking those leads is exactly why I wanted to come on this show today. I’ve seen tremendous success by going out and calling for listings and building a listing-side business. The more they can do of that, the more success I think we’ll see in ’23.

Changes, as you and I know, we’ve seen a correction really since, I want to say, peak summer months in our area. We’ve felt it. It’s definitely not going under contract in 24 hours anymore.

Sarah Close 07:02

Sure.

Katie Engler 07:02

We actually have to face the challenges of selling a house. And now more than ever, it is very, very critical to price homes correctly, as that padding isn’t going to be as forgiving.

Sarah Close 07:15

Sure. No, that makes a lot of sense. So you’re still doing listings, and obviously you’re now taking care of a flock. Are you doing lead generation still yourself every day?

Katie Engler 07:27

Oh yeah.

Sarah Close 07:28

Okay, great. And what does that look like for you? What is kind of the structure of your morning? I know that you guys have two little people too, so you’ve got some extra layers in there. If I’m going to find you before 12 noon, where would I find you at different parts of the morning?

Katie Engler 07:44

Sure. First and foremost, it’s expireds first thing in the morning. For me, I want to say it’s right before eight o’clock. I’m not very comfortable calling much earlier. I’ve seen six ask about 10 minutes too late. And that data, of course, is coming from Vulcan7. I would never go anywhere else. I’ve seen tremendous success from it and will continue to use it.

I just think that the reliability and how you feed that data allows me to call so many more people effectively than looking for someone to speak with. So that’s my first step. Second step would be helping my team that’s prospecting. So if they’re facing something, we may get on a call together and go back and call that person again.

Sarah Close 08:30

That’s great. Are most of your calls through expireds, or do you have other channels that you also call on a consistent cadence to supplement your expired business?

Katie Engler 08:44

Sure. New expireds, old expireds, for sale by owner, and I’m getting more into circle prospecting. I really had not had the time for it before now, but that’s going to be really needed to start filling that pipeline for ’23. But yes, expireds new and old, for sale by owner, and now calling around just listed, just sold.

Sarah Close 09:07

I don’t know that everybody’s familiar with the term circle prospecting. What does that mean? If I’m circle prospecting, what am I doing?

Katie Engler 09:16

Circle prospecting essentially is a geographic farm done by dialing. So you can pick it. Some people do that by just listed or just solds. You can do it on your own or ask your broker permission to call around any of their listings because essentially the broker holds them all. So you would find one, find a geographic radius around that, and start calling them, letting them know what you just sold or what you just listed and trying to pick up business that way.

I would recommend going on your MLS and finding a neighborhood that has a high 10 or 11% turn rate to do that.

Sarah Close 09:51

No, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, no sense calling if no one’s moving. That makes a lot of sense. And then for your lead gen schedule, how long do you budget for doing that on a daily basis? And is that every day or is that a four-day or three-day-a-week, or what does that look like for you?

Katie Engler 10:07

I work every day. I wish I could sit here and tell you that I had an exact schedule that I sit down and make calls, but I can tell you that I’m calling every day. That might look a little bit different by the day, but it’s happening every day.

And the consistency is something that I am teaching my team to know the value of because you could have a bad day. You can call and nobody wants to meet with you for a listing, and you do it enough, and the next two days you could have four listing appointments. So consistency is key.

Sarah Close 10:40

I think that’s a really nice point that you bring up, that you have to almost give yourself some grace with your schedule. I mean, when you have a family and when you have things that come up, I think it’s really important to have that mental dexterity to say, yeah, it wasn’t exactly the time that I planned it today, but that doesn’t mean that I didn’t get it in. So that’s a big deal, because I hear that a lot. It’s, “Oh my gosh, my morning got away from me.”

It’s, “Well, where’s your afternoon?” Makes a lot of sense. I think that’s really reassuring and reaffirming to know that even someone that’s producing at the level you are still doesn’t have necessarily that rigidity that we all long to achieve. So that makes a lot of sense.

Katie Engler 11:29

Absolutely. I mean, for your new expireds, if you can get on the phone early the day of, it’s only going to make your life easier. But for everybody else, as long as you’re making your calls daily and doing it consistently, you’ll see the results from it.

Ren Jones 11:41

And I would have to think that for sale by owners and especially old expireds, you can call them any time of day and it’s not as time-sensitive as that fresh expired that morning.

Katie Engler 11:53

Absolutely, yeah, day of…

Ren Jones 11:55

There’s plenty of work. There’s plenty of opportunity.

Katie Engler 11:58

For sure. It’s just day-of expireds are really the only exception to that rule that I have found. And you can even call them at any point in the day. You’re just going to have more objections.

Ren Jones 12:11

Still required every hour past 8:00 AM.

Sarah Close 12:16

That is a good point. That is a very good point. To switch gears a little bit, talk to us about for sale by owners. What are you finding in that lead generation silo right now? What is your process with them? How often do you find that you call them to get them to convert? Do you have any hacks in the for sale by owner world that you found are useful that you could share?

Katie Engler 12:37

Yeah, I want to say most of the business that I personally did last year was for sale by owner. And a lot of people are, “How does that even work?” Because they seem harder at times than expireds because they’re not sold on the idea that an agent has the value.

First and foremost, come from truthfully, I know so many people have said this, but it’s for a reason, come from a place of true contribution and don’t think about getting the listing first. Think about truthfully helping these people and asking open-ended questions as to why they’re choosing this pathway. And they will tell you through that conversation, maybe the second conversation depending on how far you can get, how to sell them. And really, that’s by helping them.

Sarah Close 13:26

Yeah, that makes sense. So are you doing preliminary consultative appointments with them, or are you just giving them market feedback on the phone, or what things of value are you finding that you need to bring to them in order to build that trust for them to let you into their world?

Katie Engler 13:43

So a lot of agents have different ways of going about it, none of which I think are wrong. But just my way of going about it, I don’t personally preview anything. I do want to come right out and say, “I would love to assist you by working as a team and getting your property sold. I’m very data driven. Here’s the evidence based on the last X amount of people that I’ve helped in your zip code, in your neighborhood, whatever the situation may be, and I’m confident I can do it for you. Let’s get together for 15 or 20 minutes so I can show you how to do that.”

So it’s really more of, let me show you how I can help you, and then you decide whether that’s going to be the best decision for you or not.

Sarah Close 14:24

Awesome.

Ren Jones 14:24

Would it be fair today in the area of for sale by owners that if we look at last year, because a lot of agents were, “Oh, the market’s terrible now. It’s so much harder.” But I would think a for sale by owner last year, like you said, there were offers in 24 hours, could get easily discouraged. It might be there two weeks later or a week later or five days later, and it’d be a lot easier to get a listing in that category than it was a year ago. What say you? What are you seeing in Myrtle Beach?

Katie Engler 14:55

I think that before we saw a correction, at least I know that nationally we have, but really just speaking on a local level, I think before we saw the correction, for sale by owners were selling on their own here because the padding that I had referenced before could be so far off that even if they didn’t know how to price themselves or market themselves, you mix that with a lack of inventory to the tune that Myrtle Beach was seeing, less than four days’ worth of inventory, they were just moving before we could get to them.

Now, it’s easier to list them in the capacity that when inventory rises, people have more options, which is less of a reason to look off market to find them.

Ren Jones 15:36

And so therefore, expireds should be the same way. In other words, if you’re listing property and even if you’re working with buyers, it’s bound to be a little easier this year than last year. But everybody’s, “Oh, the rates are too high,” but that’s a good thing, isn’t it? Am I missing something, or isn’t this year a lot easier than last year just because it isn’t quite so insane where everything sells in 24 hours?

Katie Engler 16:03

Yes, I think in a lot of ways it is easier in that capacity where your client, especially as a buyer-side representative, you have a minute to sort of get your ducks in a row and your client can wrap their head around, “Okay, I saw five houses today and I don’t have to make a decision in 30 seconds that is for the rest of my life.”

Ren Jones 16:23

And last year was, you had to say, “Okay, so here’s the thing. You need to pay all cash, no inspections, and you need to go about 20% over list.” I mean, where are you going to find that buyer?

Katie Engler 16:35

Exactly. And we do make those comparisons to help people understand the interest rates right now of, would you rather go back to where we were before and pay 20, 30, $40,000 over asking, or would you rather have a slightly higher interest rate? Because you take that amount of money through time, and I don’t really know that we’re necessarily in a different situation. The money is just playing out differently.

Ren Jones 16:57

And the payment’s probably going to be exactly the same except for the fact that as interest rates abate, you can refinance and lower it. So you can’t do that if you paid 20% higher.

Katie Engler 17:11

Marry the house, date the rate.

Sarah Close 17:14

That’s right. That’s exactly right. Makes all the difference. Makes all the difference.

Ren Jones 17:17

I would think people listening to this, if you get discouraged, you don’t want to have been in the market a year ago, although they were. I would think this is bound to be a lot easier because you got a half a chance.

Katie Engler 17:28

Well, coming into the business for the newer agents, or agents that maybe have been in a while that haven’t been in this full-time, or for whatever reason now you’re just sort of getting your traction, I do think that it’s going to be a lot easier. The agent pool is going to thin out a little bit because it’s not as easy to get a house under contract, but it’s normalizing so you can start to learn this process a lot easier and have these conversations easier than you could last year.

Ren Jones 17:57

I’m not sure if it’s normal going from a two-month supply of homes to three months. It’s on its way. You mentioned four years ago, you talked about, and I would think it would apply with expireds and for sale by owners today, that you take the time to listen to what they’re saying to you. And for that reason, you get in rapport and the trust is built, and then the process of getting the listing seems to come more naturally. Is that still part of the philosophy with the 12 people you have now?

Katie Engler 18:36

Absolutely. I want everyone to embody the fact that we’re truthfully here to help and we’re not here to burn and turn clients. So I want a referral business not only for myself, but for each and every one of them. And the way that you get that is by providing overvalue, right?

Going in and saying, “Listen, I don’t know if we can help you or not, but we’re here to tell you exactly what our advisement would be and why, and help guide you through that as to what that would look like for you specifically. And you can tell us if you feel that we would be okay to represent you.” It’s okay if we’re not all right for everybody, but we just go in there confidently.

Ren Jones 19:17

A little more of a thoughtful conversation versus… And coming in contribution, as you said. People can feel that. So I was impressed last time, and it stuck in my mind that you spent a little more time asking questions and thoughtfully getting an understanding of where they’re coming from, and then based on what they’re looking for, weaving it back into the conversation.

Katie Engler 19:41

Absolutely. Open-ended questions is everything. Try to get used to not asking something that is easily answered in a yes or no answer.

Sarah Close 19:50

Sure. No, that’s great advice. That’s great advice. Are you guys doing anything to cultivate business out of your sphere of influence or your past client database currently?

Katie Engler 20:01

Yes. So now that we are transitioning to this BoomTown platform that is a lot more, in my opinion, capable of segmenting your lead data, everyone’s going in there. So listing side, buy side, it doesn’t matter. Past client, just someone that you think could potentially be a client, everyone is going in there and will be tagged appropriately within the system so that we’re having those appropriate touchpoints no matter who you are.

Ren Jones 20:28

That’s a lot better than you having them following along on Zillow.

Katie Engler 20:31

No, we definitely don’t want that.

Sarah Close 20:35

We definitely don’t want that. Yeah, that’s for sure.

Ren Jones 20:37

Because everything leads back to you and you see the activity, and you see when the interest is there and when they’re highlighting things, and then I guess that makes it a lot easier to know when to circle back.

Katie Engler 20:47

Absolutely.

Ren Jones 20:48

Or to send suggestions.

Katie Engler 20:51

Yeah, and I think another thing for those who might be new that are watching or wanting to start prospecting for business, just because it isn’t an instantaneous thing right now, as it was in, just call it the height of summer, that doesn’t mean that same person that you thought was definitely a no doesn’t turn into a yes.

I just signed a listing that took me 15 different touchpoints and another one that took me almost 20, and that’s over a span of a couple of months. So don’t give up, and know that these people will do business with someone. Why not have it be you? So stay in front of them.

Ren Jones 21:29

And I don’t think there are any patterns because we’ve certainly all seen where you talked to somebody at 9:30 in the morning and they’re ready to go.

Katie Engler 21:39

And that’s still out there, for sure.

Ren Jones 21:41

Yeah, “Come on over.”

Katie Engler 21:42

They’re not all instant.

Ren Jones 21:44

Give me a minute. I’ll be right there.

Katie Engler 21:46

Oh yeah, you can still run into that. Absolutely.

Sarah Close 21:50

Oh, that’s very exciting. That’s very exciting. So if you were talking with an agent that was just licensed and freshly minted, what would be your feedback for them of the top areas to put their focus onto to become a professional agent?

Katie Engler 22:06

I would honestly jump right into the listing side, and I’m kind of biased on that, but I feel like there’s a huge misconception that when you first start off, that you need to start with buyers. And that’s not true. But the reason why I say to start off on the listing side is you’re starting to build your geographic area that you’re farming for listings.

You don’t have to jump right into expired listings, but you’re having these conversations and through time, they will start panning out and you can scale your business a lot easier that way.

Ren Jones 22:38

They just get the little condos that some of the local agents don’t want that much or something like that. Get started on some of the smaller stuff and then work their way up.

Katie Engler 22:49

Yep. Just have the conversations because a lot of agents get caught into how they’re going to do something, but they don’t actually do it. So pick up the phone. That’s going to be your number one best friend.

Ren Jones 23:01

What do you think, Sarah? I mean, you’ve got 560 agents and you see the new ones coming in the door. And you’re right, our industry is all about, well, hold some open houses and tell all your friends and work with a bunch of buyers, but they get worn out. They’re showing all day Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and they have no life and no income. And with all the multiple offers, it’s still a little tough. Wouldn’t it be easier to get a listing?

Sarah Close 23:26

I always think it’s always better to get a listing. Maybe not any easier, but it’s certainly not any more complicated.

Ren Jones 23:34

Takes less time, too.

Sarah Close 23:35

Well, I think the average is, what, 32 hours to get a buyer under contract and eight with a listing.

Ren Jones 23:42

And you don’t have to write the contract.

Sarah Close 23:46

It’s true.

Ren Jones 23:47

Over and over and over.

Sarah Close 23:49

List last. No, I think we’re going to see a lot of things like what Katie’s describing with this moving to a more skill-based market and to a more value-based market. I think it’s going to be an absolutely phenomenal environment for professional agents to really be able to showcase their skills and to be able to gain market share that was kind of pilfered away by some of the hobbyists when it’s been kind of high cotton the last couple years.

So I think it’s a really critical time for professional agents to kind of retake the hill and secure that market share that they can carry through their career. And listings are the pinnacle. That’s the tip of the iceberg.

Ren Jones 24:40

You’re the inventory.

Sarah Close 24:41

That’s right. That’s right. Very cool. Well, Katie, this has been extremely helpful. I love seeing what you’ve accomplished in such a challenging market. Challenging the question, is it a good market, bad market? Depends on what side you are on, but I would call it a challenging market for any agent over the last several years. And I’m really excited with what you’re looking to do with your team.

When you think about the upcoming year, you talked a little bit about your volume goal. What other types of things are you guys seeing in your future path as you think about how you want to develop your organization?

Katie Engler 25:23

I would like to stay under 15 agents, and the reason for that is, like I mentioned to you a little bit before we started this formal interview, I want to be the leader that’s truthfully there for you, that I can parse out my time and make sure that whatever questions you have are answered, that I’m training you in depth, not surface level. Because that’s how you get better, is exposure from that training. So I would like to keep it inside 15 agents.

I’d like to add an ISA, and I would just like to service our clients internal to our team with the same thought process, which is just first-class service.

Sarah Close 26:04

Yeah, that’s fantastic. Absolutely.

Ren Jones 26:08

Good. And it sounds like a quality operation already. And just watching this process from the last time we talked to you and this one, you’ve got something really good going on there. By the way, one of our employees lives there, but I don’t think she’s going to be selling anytime soon. But I think one of her kids may move there, so we should hook you up.

Katie Engler 26:30

Awesome. Yeah, absolutely.

Sarah Close 26:32

So that actually brings up a great point. So Katie, when someone is looking to get in touch with you to refer you business, what is the best way for them to reach you?

Katie Engler 26:44

Text me. It comes right to me. I always have my phone in my hand. It’s (843) 798-0909.

Sarah Close 26:51

Awesome. That’s a great number.

Katie Engler 26:52

Thank you.

Sarah Close 26:55

Got to love the repeating digits. Well, thank you for spending time with us today. I really, really appreciate it. It’s been very, very insightful.

Ren Jones 27:01

Very nice.

Katie Engler 27:02

Well, likewise, and I really appreciate you having me back on, and it’s just super exciting.

Ren Jones 27:07

Good. We look forward to catching up with you again and watching as this continues to unfold, but it sounds like it’s right where it ought to be. It’s a beautiful business.

Sarah Close 27:16

Very cool.

Ren Jones 27:16

Congratulations again for building a wonderful business and being in a wonderful place.

Katie Engler 27:22

Thank you so much. I couldn’t do it without your absolutely wonderful data either.

Ren Jones 27:27

Well, we appreciate that a lot, too. Thanks everybody for being here and…

Sarah Close 27:32

Thanks for having us, Ren.

Ren Jones 27:33

Yep, thanks everybody.

Katie Engler 27:34

Thank you.

Sarah Close 27:35

Katie, it’s a pleasure. Thanks again for your time.

Katie Engler 27:37

Likewise. Thank you so much. Take care, guys.

Sarah Close 27:40

Take care.

Ren Jones 27:41

Bye.