S9 E7: Successful Realtor Lead Generation Strategy & Advice

Zak Klinedinst (00:00):
I know how to find expired listings, and I know I can pick up the phone call, use the right tonality, and just build a relationship with a seller. And I know I can turn nothing into something. And my biggest thing, these listings I have taken, they’re from expireds from two or three years ago, so I’m not calling the expireds that just came off the market yesterday. I’m calling the ones from a year ago, two, three, four years ago. And that’s where I get the most success.

Ren Jones (00:29):
And I agree with you, Zak. That is low hanging fruit. And would it be fair to say that those are easy calls generally speaking, friendly calls?

Zak Klinedinst (00:40):
100% because they’re not being blown up by 25 other people right away calling them.

Ren Jones (00:58):
It’s that time. Welcome to Roadmap, how to take three listings a week until you’re ready for more. Each week, we interview a great agent who’s taking several listings each month. And we have an exciting guest today. Let me introduce my co-host first, from Cincinnati, Ohio and surrounds, let me introduce Sarah Close. Hi, Sarah. How’s the real estate business?

Sarah Close (01:25):
Real estate business is fantastic. Thanks for having me.

Ren Jones (01:28):
Sarah’s got her fingers in a lot of pies. Not only do you have the team, but you’ve got … How many agents do you have now, 550, 560, 570, something like that, all around Southern Ohio, Indiana, and Northern Kentucky? Is that right?

Sarah Close (01:44):
Right about there, about 550, yeah. So that’s a good group.

Ren Jones (01:46):
550, okay. Good. And your team goal?

Sarah Close (01:50):
Team is going well. Team goal this year is 200 units.

Ren Jones (01:54):
200 units, that’s really good. And you’re going to double side a few too. Right?

Sarah Close (01:59):
We don’t mind double siding them at all.

Ren Jones (02:02):
Good, good, good. And Sarah, she dials for dollars, so she knows the drill here. She knows how to take a lot of listings really quickly each month. So let’s introduce our guest. We have an exciting guest from a little tiny town. I want to call it Chattahoochee, but he’ll correct me. It’s outside of West Palm Beach, it’s a wonderful area. Mr. Zak Klinedinst, did I pronounce your name right?

Zak Klinedinst (02:31):
You certainly did, yes, sir. Thank you so much. That little town that you’re referring to is called Loxahatchee, by the way, and I still don’t even know how to spell it. It’s so difficult.

Ren Jones (02:40):
Yeah. You have to walk a little footbridge across a river to get there.

Zak Klinedinst (02:45):
Exactly, exactly. That’s why I tell my wife, when we introduce ourselves to somebody, she’s like, “Yeah, we’re from Loxahatchee,” even the locals don’t know where Loxahatchee is. I say, “Listen, babe, just say that we’re from West Palm Beach. That’s it.” They’ll never question you after that.

Ren Jones (02:57):
If you want to find Loxahatchee, you have to ask a lot of people and they’ll lean in, say, “Shh, I’ll tell you, but don’t tell anybody.”

Zak Klinedinst (03:04):
Exactly.

Ren Jones (03:05):
So what do they call that, a well-kept secret?

Zak Klinedinst (03:08):
That’s what it is. It actually is a well-kept secret, believe it or not. It’s blowing up right now.

Ren Jones (03:13):
So you’re doing really well. You were with a competing company. I can’t remember the name of it, something like Red Roof Inn or something like that. And then you came over to Vulcan7 about a year and a half ago. Is is something like that?

Zak Klinedinst (03:25):
About a year ago, yep.

Ren Jones (03:27):
So you moved to Vulcan7. And then what happened?

Zak Klinedinst (03:30):
So it’s funny, I made a transition about a year ago. And June of last year, I took my biggest listing ever. And I ended up double siding it, and I already have a referral from that same client from that listing that I took. So the big thing for me, the biggest difference is more conversations.

Ren Jones (03:52):
So you say it was a big listing. Was it $250,000, $300,000?

Zak Klinedinst (03:57):
So that was the old market that I came from in my other state. But no, this one was $1.36 million.

Ren Jones (04:03):
And you double sided that.

Zak Klinedinst (04:05):
We were able to double side it, yep.

Ren Jones (04:07):
So what kind of check is that when you double side a $1.36 million house?

Zak Klinedinst (04:13):
What is that, close to 60 grand, ballpark?

Ren Jones (04:16):
It was a good day. You know? And then you got another 900K or 900 something.

Zak Klinedinst (04:21):
Yeah. So that seller referred me to another one for 975 to one of their best friends, who was actually moving out of Florida, as you mentioned in the introduction.

Ren Jones (04:30):
Right, you’ll take them coming and going. Won’t you?

Zak Klinedinst (04:33):
100%.

Sarah Close (04:34):
You recently moved down and you kind of came with no network and no shoulder in your new marketplace. Tell us a little bit about what you’ve done to get yourself established because it’s not unlike what any new agent would be going through, so help us kind of … Walk us through your journey on that.

Zak Klinedinst (04:52):
Yeah. So great question, so it was 2020. 2020, we ended up right in the middle of COVID. We bought our first house in Florida, June 2020. We had to renovate it, which is fine. But the big thing was I think just more so, not to get too into that stuff, but real estate was not considered essential in the state of Pennsylvania at that time, and so I also was thinking about making a move for a long time, and that kind of just set it off. And I know for a fact I can go anywhere in the world, they can drop me in the United States anywhere, I know how to find expired listings. I know I can pick up the phone call, use the right tonality, and just build a relationship with a seller. And I know I can turn nothing into something.

(05:39):
And my biggest thing, these listings that I’ve taken, they’re from expireds from two or three years ago. So I’m not calling the expireds that just came off the market yesterday. I’m calling the ones from a year ago, two, three, four years ago, and that’s where I get the most success.

Ren Jones (05:55):
And I have to agree with you, Zak, that is low hanging fruit. And would it be fair to say that those are friendly calls, generally speaking?

Zak Klinedinst (06:03):
100% because they’re not being blown up by 25 other people right away calling them.

Sarah Close (06:08):
So if I’m a seasoned expired in your market and you’re reaching out to me, I was on the market 18 months ago, what are you saying to me? How are you engaging with me? What’s your dialogue?

Zak Klinedinst (06:20):
Good afternoon. Is this Denny?

Sarah Close (06:24):
Yes, this is Denny.

Zak Klinedinst (06:26):
Hey, Denny, my name is Zak with EXP Realty. How are you today?

Sarah Close (06:29):
I’m doing okay. How are you, Zak?

Zak Klinedinst (06:31):
I’m doing great. Thank you so much. Hey, this is kind of a long shot. I’m not sure if you’ve been thinking about this or not, but back in 2018, you had your home for sale. And again, I know it’s a long shot, but is there any chance in the next three to six months, you guys may have been thinking about selling your home?

Sarah Close (06:48):
We’re kind of … I don’t know. We’re trying to figure out what’s going on with the market. A lot of time’s gone by. We toss it around every once in a while.

Zak Klinedinst (07:00):
Right. And so that’s my introduction to that conversation. Right? And then I take it from there, and not everybody’s going to say yes, obviously. I try to get their email. And then I’m just building up my email list. I have about 10,000 people on my email list from York, Pennsylvania, now down also in Florida.

Sarah Close (07:18):
So Zak, if I am a member of your email list and I’ve gotten … You’ve been in touch with me either as a seasoned expired or some other way that you were able to get me into your web, how do I hear from you? What is the cadence? What’s the material? What are the mediums? How are you keeping me engaged?

Zak Klinedinst (07:37):
Yeah, great questions. So if it’s in my general email list, I treat it like I do social media. So I’m going to be telling more stories about myself, I just won’t do it as much as I post on Instagram or Facebook. Right? So for instance, I bought a book the other … And I just follow and study other people. I bought a book the other day from a guy named Tai Lopez, which I’m sure a lot of people have heard of Tai Lopez, he’s a big digital internet marketer. And the book was very simple, it was just simply a lesson he learned in a book, and the book name, and I ended up going out and buying that book because what he said resonated with me. Right?

(08:14):
And so I just like to keep it different than real estate. I don’t like to just do everything with real estate related because some people, that’s kind of boring to them if they’re not in the market at this point. However, if I can somehow bring something up with my kids, if we all have kids, and if you don’t, maybe you want to have kids.

Sarah Close (08:31):
You were a kid at one point.

Zak Klinedinst (08:33):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You’re working, hopefully maybe you’re eating right, you’re doing exercise. I try to incorporate my life into my followup sequence, or to the generic basis. Now if it’s somebody who hit me up and said, “Zak, we want to sell our house in two months, follow up with us in a month,” I’ll still send them those followups, but I have more of a personalized followup with those. Right? So those kind of clients, it’s just more of a touching base type of situation. And within those two months, just seeing if I can be a resource for other things for them, contractors or anything else that they might need.

Sarah Close (09:10):
Okay, got you. So if I’m in your, I’m going to call it your big pond, how often am I hearing from you?

Zak Klinedinst (09:18):
Probably twice a month.

Sarah Close (09:19):
Twice a month. Okay. And then what does your social media play look like layered over that? What do you want your visibility to look like on social media to complement that?

Zak Klinedinst (09:29):
I do a lot of videos for listings. Today, I got a short sale, I used to do short sales all the time back in ’14, ’15, ’16. I got my first short sale today. I had it signed last week, but it’s been four years since I’ve done a short sale. So I got a short sale done today, I went and did a video in front of the house. I didn’t walk through the house, I just shot it out front of the house, talking about short sales, talking about how a buyer can gain instant equity in this crazy market that we’ve been in if they were to pursue a short sale and how that would work for them and the whole … It’s a two-minute video. I try to keep it entertaining and keep the energy high.

(10:09):
I did a video on a lot. I just did a video on a lot that I have. It’s five acres. You can’t even walk it, it’s so overgrown. I walked down the street with the lot in my background just talking about the neighborhood because it’s a gated community too, talking about the neighborhood. And I got two listings off of that video. And that was with my cell phone, just holding it in front of me, walking down the street, posting it to Facebook, and then I just did a basic boost in the end. That was it.

Sarah Close (10:37):
That’s awesome. So are you doing this post once a day, once a week? What’s your cadence on those usually?

Zak Klinedinst (10:44):
So honestly, I could be a lot better with my social media. I could post a lot more, but I do it more like I said, personal and business. So every morning, I get up and write my goals down. I wake up at 4:00 in the morning. I do my own, I write, I read, and I exercise, so I post all those things to my story and to my profile. But for real estate though, real estate is more so closings, new listings, wins for my agents, wins for myself, and also, I like to share losses because I think people relate to losses too. It’s not always peaches and cream. And as we know-

Ren Jones (11:24):
You’re coming across as a human being.

Zak Klinedinst (11:27):
Exactly. Look at your friends on social that are real estate agents, we all always post the wins.

Sarah Close (11:33):
Sure.

Zak Klinedinst (11:34):
I hardly see anybody post the issues when they just got fired from a listing and what they think might’ve happened, without blaming, you don’t blame anybody because I take full responsibility for things that go right and go wrong in my life. And so when that happens, I’ll take responsibility for it and I’ll learn a lesson from it, and I’ll share the lesson with my peers.

Sarah Close (11:52):
You started to touch on something that’s really important on this in our industry, and that’s a little bit about your morning routine. Can you shed some light on that for us? What does your morning routine look like on the days that you are working?

Zak Klinedinst (12:06):
I’ve been doing it for years, since 2012. I have notebooks. I don’t have it on me, but actually, I might have something in here. But I have notebooks of things I write. I don’t know if you guys can see that, but I have pages and pages of notes. I write down anything that comes to my mind and it puts me in a flow state. So if I’m in a mood where I’m just … You might be thinking you’re down for that day, or you’re like, “Where’s my next deal going to come from?” I just write things down. I literally write down I attract high-end clients to me that want to buy and sell a home ASAP, random things.

(12:36):
I attract clients to my team. My team attracts clients to them. I attract agents to my database. It’s crazy when I say this and it might sound corny, it might sound cliché, this short sale called me two weeks ago from Google, which I never get calls from Google at this point yet. But he interviewed me and five other agents and I ended up winning that listing, but again, it was a call that came to me, and I don’t know, there’s some kind of universal law that works there.

Ren Jones (13:04):
So Zak, how did you separate yourself out from the others? This could be a really good key here.

Zak Klinedinst (13:11):
That’s exactly how I did it. My morning routine, I think it’s more the discipline.

Ren Jones (13:15):
So mindset and discipline, yes. And you’re being interviewed along with four other people. What do you think set you apart in addition to your mindset?

Zak Klinedinst (13:26):
Well, I’ll tell you what my client said. His name is Mark. Mark told me, he said, “Zak, you’re more human. You’re just human more than anybody else I’ve talked to.” He said, “The one guy I spoke to, he just didn’t have a good conversation or it was just too robotic.” It’s too script based.

Ren Jones (13:42):
So you were a little more three-dimensional than everybody else, how tends to just put out their public face.

Zak Klinedinst (13:49):
Well, that’s a skill that you have to learn though, so I had to learn that skill. When I first got into real estate, like I said earlier, I failed my first time around in real estate. I failed miserably. I came into an office, the office manager, and the reason why I came to that office is because my mom bought her first house and the agent who sold her the house, I admired him, slicked back hair, nice suit, nice BMW, looked like James Bond. I’m like, “I want to be like that guy when I get older.” And I ended up working at that same office that he was at, and I came in there with some energy, but I was 18 years old, had all this enthusiasm.

(14:21):
And they’re like, “This is going to be the rookie of the year.” They put me up in a cubicle on the second floor. I was with a bunch of older people, but they all had their sphere, they knew what they were doing. And I’m like, “All right, cool. Now what the hell do I do?” You know? And I went six months, didn’t sell a house, and left the business for four years.

(14:40):
So what set me apart I think was getting back into the business, having the right mentor who I could physically see doing what I always aspired to do. They were doing it more on the investor side, not the real estate agent side. So what I said earlier about short sales, I came into their group just being their listing agent for all their marketing that they were doing for their short sales. And they were smart because they would keep commission while they were paying me a salary. You know what I mean? So they were smart the way they did it, and here I am as a …

(15:13):
But what happened during that process was I learned, I spoke to so many different people, I messed up so many different times, that I was able to develop the skillset of how to just … What people are actually looking for, which is just to have a conversation with somebody and feel comfortable and know that they can trust you. And once you build up the experience, then it makes it a lot easier.

Sarah Close (15:33):
Yeah. No, that’s great advice. Talk to us a little bit about the anatomy of your lead generation schedule. So you get in, in the morning, how long are you on the phones? Who are you calling? What is the order in which you do calls? Do you have contact goals, et cetera? What does that all look like for you?

Zak Klinedinst (15:49):
Yeah. So I try to have at least 50 conversations a day, or at least make the dials to at least 50 people either in my database or to new leads. And 50 might be a small number, but I’m talking about in general, not on just Vulcan7. I’m talking about all other lead sources. Now when I train a new agent, I tell them right away, “You have to go right here to Vulcan7,” because 350 a month or whatever the cost is for a new agent, I’m not sure what that cost is, if you can spend 200 to 300 bucks a month, 400 bucks a month, I guarantee … I can’t guarantee you, but I know for a fact you can blow your business up, and I know exactly how to do it.

(16:26):
Hit the phones, make these many calls, set these many appointments, and build your database, build the email list. So if I was a brand new agent, I would be coming in and that’s all I would be doing if I had no budget again. I’d get a mentor that could help me with my war tracks, that could keep me inspired, and that I could aspire to be, my mentor. And I would look for the way to make these phone calls to sellers because that’s how I grew up in the business too. I remember I was going door knocking. Back in 2014, I was door knocking. I was like, “Man, expired listing, these guys aren’t home. They don’t call you back. There’s no control. I don’t know if they’re going to see my stuff. And if they do see it, they aren’t going to call me back.”

(17:07):
So I was like, “There has to be a different way.” And so I found the software that I was using back at that time. And it worked great, but I was having a … My agents were having problems getting ahold of sellers. See, I didn’t have an issue because I was just making more dials. But nowadays days, the problem is agents and us in general, a lot of people just have such short-sightedness, we want instant gratification. When we make 25 dials and you don’t get somebody on the phone, this doesn’t work, it’s a waste of my time. Well, you just have the wrong goals in mind.

Ren Jones (17:40):
So when you think about it, one commission check is a whole lot of money. And so when you look at the amount of time spent going after sellers is a lot less time-consuming than working with a buyer. The biggest challenge is again the mental side. It’s not a gratifying process. Yet, you spend only a fraction of the time that you would spend if you were working with buyers.

Zak Klinedinst (18:04):
100%. Well, that’s the thing too, people don’t want to do hard things anymore. They want everything to be easy. What’s the fastest way to get a six pack? The key word is: What’s the fastest? Everybody wants the fastest and the easiest way to do it. And that’s not how you build a business. And the problem with agents, they get into the business as an employee mindset because that’s where they come from. They come from the employee background, or they got out of high school or wherever they’re coming from, and they want to be an employee. They don’t think about the long-term investment.

(18:35):
So what I looked at and what I tell agents now is, get on a team. I know people have different opinions with teams. I’m a team leader now, but if I was starting over, I would 100% go on a team. I would 100% take a 50% split. I was on a 35% split. I took 35% in a tiered structure. I was in the worst split in the industry, but I didn’t know what I didn’t know, and I was looking at the future investment as to what I’m going to learn.

Ren Jones (19:00):
So you’re absolutely right, Zak. If you’re on a team or a good team, you’re going to learn so many things. And then when you think about the dynamics of a team, there are so many trains coming down the track, so many transactions, your belief system goes up that, hey, I too can go out and do a lot of business. And then yet, you could stay on that team for 10 years and have a good life as well.

Zak Klinedinst (19:26):
Well, what you just said, Ren, so what you just said is the belief. So if you look me up, you guys can look me up on Zillow. You’ll see my market share. I’ve sold over $850 homes since 2014. So how does somebody like that, which I get my agents in PA still call me today like, “Are you coming back? Are you coming back to Pennsylvania?” It’s like, “No, I’m not coming back to Pennsylvania.” But they’re like, “How can you take a business that you built over seven years, eight years, where you’ve done all this massive volume, you built up a big sphere of influence, now you have clients coming to you?” I don’t have to chase deals anymore. How can you go from that to starting all the way back over in a whole new marketplace, where you know nobody?

Ren Jones (20:04):
You’re absolutely right, Zak. This is a very portable business once we master the skill because it requires a high level of skill to work with the people you don’t know. Your database, they’re a lot more forgiving. They’re like, “Well, Pete’s just Pete.” Yet, in the market we’re in, in this market that changed recently, the database isn’t very active, so we need to be working with people we don’t know. But with this high level of skill, you can pretty much pick whatever city you can live in, you can move anywhere in the United States and set up and be doing business instantly.

Zak Klinedinst (20:41):
Yeah. So if I have the self confidence to go anywhere, which again is a huge … I used to be timid. I used to be scared. I wouldn’t … Ask my mom, I was a shy kid. And I’ve trained myself to just learn that if you want to be a successful business owner, and another part that helped me with this, I sold my mom … I was a single mom, my mom was single, I’m an only child. My mom would go to the grocery store and put things in the cart and use a calculator to put that in the cart. And I knew for a fact I never wanted to be in that position to where I have to use a calculator to know what my grocery bill’s going to be before I went to the register. Right? So having that, starting from the bottom is actually a good thing for a lot of people because it shows you what you don’t want to go back to and it builds you up to want to learn new skillsets to where you never have to worry about it.

Ren Jones (21:28):
People are going to learn a lot just watching you right now because you’re confident, you’re coming across as a human being, not flashy. And it’s very attractive in the sales process, so they’re going to watch this video several times and really learn a lot just watching you.

Zak Klinedinst (21:49):
That’s the biggest thing because that’s how I buy things. My best coach, the reason why I believe compression over compassion because when I have people who if I left today and I didn’t feel good about myself, but yet, my mentor’s sitting here telling me, “Zak, you did a great job today. You made those 20 calls. Yeah, you didn’t get anybody on the phone, but hey, you put the effort in, you showed up,” 80% of success is showing up. But if I have somebody telling me, which this is what happened with my first mentor when I started becoming successful, I wasn’t selling real estate. Remember, they were keeping my commission checks. Right?

(22:22):
So to them, they wanted me to sell more real estate because they were keeping the checks and I was just getting paid a salary. Well, Zak, why are you leaving here at 5:00 at night? What are you … But it was a very hard conversation and after we had that conversation, I went to look for another job that same night. And the reason why was because they gave me compression. They didn’t pat me on the shoulder and tell me good job for showing up today, and sending you my list of what I did today. They actually gave me an ultimatum and said, “Hey, I think you should really start pushing properties, otherwise, you should probably find a different way out.” It was a very hard conversation eight, nine years ago that pushed me. You know what, damn, these guys are right.

(23:01):
I don’t want to go back to where I was. I don’t want to be that person at the grocery store like my mom was, having to use a calculator. What am I doing? I’m in the right vehicle with real estate. I can make whatever I want to. I have the ability to scale it and leverage other agents, but I’ve learned the skillset. So let me just go hard at this and make this happen, and then that’s when I decided to start hitting the phones. Didn’t matter if I talked to 20 people, 50, 40, it didn’t matter, I just had to hit the numbers.

Ren Jones (23:25):
After you’ve been doing this a while, you have your batting average, if you will. You make 100 attempts, 100 dials, certain number people answer, of those answer, you set a certain percentage of appointments. Of the percentage of appointments, you take a certain number of listings. And after a while, based on that, your belief system goes up. Well, all I have to do is talk to this many people and I take this many listings.

Zak Klinedinst (23:52):
Yep, 100%. And see, that’s one of the things I ever … For me, that’s my downfall. I get kind of … I don’t know if it’s just in my mind, but I want to just have the conversations. And for me, shame on me for not tracking it more. I just know when I do the work, I get results.

Ren Jones (24:09):
So you’ve got gut numbers in your head. You know that when you put in this much time, you’re going to get this many appointments and this many listings.

Zak Klinedinst (24:16):
Right. But what I’m learning, that’s not the best way to do it because you’ve got to be able to track it to build the systems and to help other agents do the same. So my gut is different than their gut system.

Ren Jones (24:28):
Some people don’t have that same batting average. Some people can talk to a lot of people and rarely get invited over. And as they’re watching this and getting an understanding of you, as you come across as a three-dimensional person, as a real person, it’s a lot more attractive and your batting average improves.

Zak Klinedinst (24:44):
100%. It’s all about the rapport. And I think it’s your tonality, how you start the conversation. That’s one thing I learned when I was just having a higher energy on the phone. It changed everything.

Ren Jones (24:56):
And there’s been some great ideas presented here today. And people are going to want to play this over and over and write out these ideas and start implementing them. And we’re excited that you’re a customer of ours. Do you do anything in Pennsylvania at all now? Or is everything strictly Florida now?

Zak Klinedinst (25:12):
So I sold seven and a half million last year in Pennsylvania without being there, but that’s just from my sphere. I have a team that does … And I give everything out on 50% because the leads come to me and I say, “Hey, Heather, hey, Federico, can you guys … You’re my boots on the ground. I’ll negotiate the deal, but please be the boots on the ground, do your thing, and we’ll take care of the rest.”

Ren Jones (25:37):
You could just send the client a video. I know we’re in such a portable world now with technology.

Zak Klinedinst (25:44):
Well, we have a listing coming up. To give you an example, I have a 900K listing coming up. It will be my biggest deal in Pennsylvania ever. I sold her this house four years ago, and she called me back and said, “Hey, we want to sell the home now.” And it’s going to be a $900,000 deal, which is my biggest deal in Pennsylvania ever. And I’m not even there, my one agent’s going to go there on Friday, do a video tour with me on the phone. And we already have the listing contract signed to start April 1st. So once you build the systems in place and you develop other people around you, you now have the leverage that you can do to get more time freedom back.

Ren Jones (26:23):
You’ve got all of the systems, all that structure in place, so it’s very predictable and duplicatable business. Good deal. Well, we really appreciate this a lot.

Zak Klinedinst (26:32):
I appreciate your time today, guys. Thank you for having me on the show. I appreciate that.

Sarah Close (26:35):
It’s exciting. Congratulations on your move to Florida. That’s going to be an exciting venture.

Zak Klinedinst (26:40):
Yeah. Thank you so much. It’s been so far, so we’re loving it down here. We don’t ever want to … We’re happy we made the move and there’s not one thing we regret about it.

Ren Jones (26:48):
So Zak, how do they reach you? Because a lot of people like the state of Florida despite the high taxes. Oh, there are no taxes, state taxes. That’s a wonderful thing, isn’t it?

Zak Klinedinst (27:00):
No income tax either. So Facebook, Zak Klinedinst, Instagram, it’s Zak Realty 561. Or you can contact me, text or call, 561-837-0032, and always happy to have a conversation.

Ren Jones (27:16):
Perfect. Good. Thanks, everybody. We’ll see everybody next week.

Zak Klinedinst (27:20):
Thank you, guys.

Sarah Close (27:21):
Absolutely. Zak, thanks. It was a pleasure.

Zak Klinedinst (27:24):
You too. Thank you so much.